187. Queer Friendship: The Story Behind Besties in Crime

0:00 – Snarky Opener

Sara Solomon

The besties is true, the crime not so much.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, exactly.

Sara Solomon

They're very tame people. So, I forget what the question was, but I do think that... That...

0:32 – Episode Introduction

Rob Loveless

Hello my LGBTQuties and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and today I am a non-jaded gay because recently I had some friends over for a fall candle making night. The past few years, my friends and I have had our little fall craft days where we make cocktails and bring a fall craft for everyone to work on.

But this year I found a company that actually brings a candle making workshop to your house. So, it was a lot of fun, good scents, good times, you know, I love a good candle.

0:58 – Queer Friendship

Rob Loveless

And one of my friends who was there was my bestie, Sara.

And you probably remember her from way back when in our episode about surviving a breakup. And I've been friends with Sara since I was born, so 33 years of friendship. And our friendship dynamics and some of our breakups, specifically our 2019s aka our lowest points in time, served as the inspiration for my book Besties in Crime, which came out earlier this year.

Spoiler alert, the main characters are literally me and Sara if we ever found ourselves in a chaotic crime caper. And back in April, I had Sara on for a bonus episode where we talked about Besties in Crime, how some of our lowest points in time became the inspiration for the book, and just the importance of friendship in general. So today I thought I'd share that episode with you.

But before we get into it, let's pull our tarot card.

1:44 – Tarot

Rob Loveless

So today we pulled the two of wands in reverse. This is a minor arcana card, so it's more about the small changes in our day-to-day life.

Wands is tied to the element of fire. It's masculine energy, so it's very action-oriented. And wands is tied to passion, creativity, and sometimes sexuality.

And in numerology, two is tied to duality, partnership, and choice. Now when we draw the two of wands in reverse, it's telling us that we might be feeling impatient and we're acting too fast without thinking things through. Or this card can also indicate that we're scared to step out into the unknown, even though we might need to do that to grow and move on to a new chapter.

Regardless of whichever meaning may be resonating with us, it's important that we're making sure we take action that is in alignment with our personal needs. And with that in mind, get ready to open up the book, because we are diving into Besties in Crime.

2:29 – Guest Introduction

Rob Loveless

I'm gonna do a little intro, so don't say anything.

You just made noise. Oh, um, hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome to your April bonus episode. And what a very special bonus episode it is.

We have three-time returning guests, once on an actual episode, just again this year on a bonus episode, Sara Solomon.

Sara Solomon

Hi, everyone. I'm happy to be here.

Rob Loveless

Welcome back. It seems like just not that long ago we were watching Queerspoke.

Sara Solomon

What a fun time that was. That was such a fun episode.

Rob Loveless

I listened to that episode like five times since then. I just might need a laugh if I listen. You need some ASMR. Yeah, I was gonna say, I got a lot of positive comments about the cooked cheese ASMR. But today we are here to talk about Besties in Crime.

Sara Solomon

Yay! My book! Featuring me.

Only.

Rob Loveless

Featuring Sara. So, for all the listeners out there, if you don't know, I am a very famous author. The paparazzi's ruthless.

And no, actually, the majority of the books I sold in the past month were purchased by myself. But yeah, I had a book come out at the end. You gotta do what you need to do.

I had a book come out at the end of February called Besties in Crime that is based on two best friends, Jay and Gia, who I don't know where I got that inspiration from.

Sara Solomon

I don't know. Great ideas just coming to you.

Rob Loveless

They do. So obviously it's me and Sara. So, I thought we'd just kind of talk about the book today a little bit.

So, to kick off, Sara, I guess, I don't know if you remember way back when in the pandemic, but do you remember when I first told you about the idea for the book?

Sara Solomon

It has been a very long time. I do remember it in passing. I remember crying to you in a bank parking lot.

I'm sure that's where something sparked in your mind.

Rob Loveless

Actually, it wasn't for a couple years later, because I think that was right when you first were getting divorced. But what was it? In the pandemic, I was listening to Wine and Crime, and it was something about best friend crimes or something.

I was like, I wonder if Sara and I could get away with a crime. And I'm like, what if we burnt down a house? And then your divorce came into it.

Sara Solomon

And then that just happened to happen.

Rob Loveless

And that just happened to happen. I guess we should rewind a bit where it goes back to you have a failed marriage under your belt. Is that correct?

Sara Solomon

Yes. Yes, a little-known fact about me is.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. So, you came on the podcast in December 2020 or no, was it in like February 2023 and talked about that. So, we already kind of covered it.

But before we get into the book, maybe just for anybody who needs a fresh wrap or just a little recap about that little blip on the radar.

Sara Solomon

Sure. So, when was that? You were still in Pittsburgh.

So, 2019.

Rob Loveless

The divorce?

Sara Solomon

No. And I went on your podcast.

Rob Loveless

I literally just said it was February 2023. Well, this is gonna be fun to edit.

Sara Solomon

So, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say for those of you just tuning in? Why don't you tell the people about your divorce?

Rob Loveless

Just a little backstory. You don't have to go into all the details, but just how like, yeah, that happened. And then we went to the pandemic.

Sara Solomon

Oh, yeah. So, yeah. So back in 2018 was when my divorce happened, maybe finalized.

No, it didn't finalize till 2019. And then I was just so excited to get back out there. And then the world shut down because it was the pandemic.

Rob Loveless

But you found someone before the world shut down.

Sara Solomon

Luckily, we found someone. And then because of the pandemic and the world shutting down, that is how you really get to know somebody.

Rob Loveless

And she got married again. If it wasn't for the pandemic.

Sara Solomon

If it wasn't for the pandemic, who would know?

06:02 – How Real-Life Friendship Inspired Besties in Crime

Rob Loveless

But yeah. So, when I told you that I was going to write this book about to see if we could get away with the crime and that part of it would be around your divorce, my breakup, what were your initial thoughts or fears or anything?

Sara Solomon

My initial thoughts were like, yes, let's do it. Let's get all this out there. The world.

And I thought it would just be a fun topic, especially when you said it would be about us and we're funny. So, they really couldn't go wrong.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. A lot of real-life quotes in there and a lot of backstory. That's true.

I feel like the first third of the book is probably true.

Sara Solomon

Yeah. But we didn't actually set a house on fire.

Rob Loveless

That they know of.

Sara Solomon

That we know of. That anyone knows of.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. The important part is they can't prove anything. So, we didn't do it.

So, OK, told you in March 2020, I think, or I don't know, told you in like summer 2020, the idea for the book, wrote it. I finished it in, what was it, I think, December 2021. And I'm sure shortly after that, I gave it to you to read.

So, do you remember, did anything jump out to you that you remember? I know it's been a few years, but like the first time you read through like, oh, this hits you close to home or oh, this is funnier. Oh, shit.

Sara Solomon

Oh, I think like a lot of it was mostly like, oh, this is really funny because a lot of it is just our conversations. Actually, I remember not to backtrack a little bit. I remember sitting on my couch in my first apartment and I remember you and I having a phone call and we just kept cracking each other up on the phone that day.

And I remember you saying, like, I'm going to keep a notes app of just all of the things that we say. And then a couple of years later, all of those notes apps just came into the book. I get to reread them in the book.

But no, I remember reading the book. You sent me the like Word document that you were working on. And I think I'd finished at that point.

And I remember you sent me that and I was reading it like on the train and I was reading it on my way to work and I was reading it in my free time. And yeah, I just remember everything that stood out to me was just that I'm hilarious. And and I love Gia's character because she she's a bad bitch and she didn't let anything keep her back.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's me. So, I did that. This idea.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I definitely when I was done writing it, I know I told you about it as I was writing a poem I was done. I wanted you to definitely read it and get your blessings. Obviously, it is me writing about my own stuff.

That's fine. I can consent to that. But for other people, I think I should probably get their permission because even when my grandmother read this, she's like, did Sara know you're going to write about her divorce?

Sara Solomon

Yeah, you know, it's weird to read about it. It's weird to read about like a real-life event that has happened to you and then, you know, read about it on a page and be like, oh, this is happening because like this happened in my life. But I think I like the twist that you put onto it.

And it almost made it like easier to even get over because I could laugh about it.

Rob Loveless

I guess that's an interesting point to bring up, too, because so backstory for everybody out there. This book is about two down on their luck friends who reunite after a bad breakup and a divorce. And they start reconciling their friendship, starting to move past things, deciding on a vacation.

Somebody gets fired, me, and has no money to go on vacation. So, they decide to rob the ex-husband and accidentally burn down the house, which launches them into a crime spiral with mobsters and police and the FBI. Only some of that is true.

But with that in mind, like I said, the first third is probably true where it's a lot of our breakups. I know you, you know, separated in late 2018, divorced in early 2019. There was a period of time where you were not in a great place and I was helping you out.

And then I started dating like March 2019. I got dumped in June 2019 and then I was not a great place. And then we went into the pandemic.

So obviously that's what, you know, inspired the idea. But then from there, you know, book was written in 2021. It's now out five years after I finished writing in 2026.

So, I guess when you maybe first read it in 2021, 2022, or even just now, all these years later, does it hit a different way or does it feel weird to look back on the pieces that are true, knowing like the time that's changed and everything that's happened since there?

Sara Solomon

Yeah, absolutely. I think when this first came out as your idea to me and I was reading your first draft of it back in 2022, I mean, things were still fresher. So, you know, it had been a couple years, but like I wasn't married yet.

My boyfriend at the time and I were just like moving in together and it was all just kind of starting new. And I was kind of like, oh, how did I get to this point in my life? And then, you know, reading it now, I think it's hilarious because I can look back and I know the ins and outs of that relationship and how, you know, not great it was for me and for either of us, truly.

And I think looking back at it now that it has like humor involved with it, I think it's like, it just makes it, it's growth. We're maturing.

Rob Loveless

Absolutely. And with that in mind, looking back, you know, where you're at now compared to where you were before and then during the book, do you think your ex-husband deserved to die?

Sara Solomon

Yes.

Rob Loveless

Just kidding. To our knowledge, he's still alive.

Sara Solomon

Just kidding. We think he's still alive.

Rob Loveless

So obviously the characters are you and me, but there is some fiction in this and some things that didn't happen quite a bit that didn't happen. So, I guess, what do you like maybe relate to most about your character or are there any parts that are like, okay, that's totally fiction. That's not, you know, my personality, how I'd speak, whatever.

Sara Solomon

I think you pretty much nailed Gia. I mean, it's a total unbiased opinion. The one thing that really stands out to me about Gia is, you know, she's very strong and especially there's a chapter where she's running through the woods and she's like reflecting on her relationship with Frank and she is trying to get the money to Carlos for the time being, so that she can save her parents.

And she realizes in that moment that she is stronger than she was yesterday. And she realizes she doesn't need a man. She doesn't need to rely on anybody but herself.

And I really appreciated that because that took me a little bit of time to finally realize after being alone for a little while. And it did happen. So, I'm glad that Gia kind of figured that out a little bit sooner than I did.

But eventually we both got there. But I thought that really stood out to me with Gia and how strong she was. And it made me happy because that meant that I also could be strong.

I can also do it.

Rob Loveless

I can also do this, I say as I get up Monday morning to go to work.

Sara Solomon

As I get up Monday morning.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, when my grandmother read it recently, she told me she really liked your character. And I don't know how much she knows this true because she knows, she's like, yeah, some of this, you know, I remember you telling me about with Sara. So, like, I remember some of these things, you know, so I liked her character.

She's just a real go-getter and she works through it. It's like, but Jay's kind of negative. He's, he's Mr. Doom and gloom. It's like, wow, grandma, you just insulted me. She also didn't like all the cursing. She's, I warned her about ahead of time.

She's like, at first, I thought it was funny, like when he said, fuckity, fuck, fuck. But then after a while, she's like, you know, it's a little much. These two kids from a nice suburb, just this kind of mouth.

So, clean it up for the next one.

Sara Solomon

Clean it up for the next time, guys.

Rob Loveless

All right, Barbara, for the sequel, I'll take some curse words out just for you. Um, have so obviously to a few of your friends have read it that knew you, you know, some knew you from childhood, some knew you around that time, some didn't know you till afterwards. So, what, what kind of reaction or reception, if any, did you get from your friends about knowing that this is your character and kind of our relationships at the beginning?

Sara Solomon

Well, it was really funny for a lot of like, I remember when it started coming out on Instagram, and you were promoting it on Instagram, and I started sharing it because I'm such a good friend. Um, I remember a lot of my friends like seeing it, and messaging me saying, Oh, my God, is that you? And I was like, yeah, Rob wrote a book about us.

And even my mother-in-law. Because she loves to, she loves my stories. So, she'll always go through my stories on Instagram.

And she saw and she was like, I thought that little redhead looked familiar. Is this supposed to be you and RJ? I was like, yeah, that's supposed to be us.

Rob wrote a book about us, and through our trials and tribulations, moving forward through a point in our lives. Um, and then the main takeaway from all of my friends after they read the book has been, did you kill your husband?

Rob Loveless

Yes, we did.

Sara Solomon

No, I don't know. I say no, it's just a work of fiction. I can't control what happened after.

Rob Loveless

Literally, no, emotionally, maybe.

Sara Solomon

Literally, no, emotionally, maybe in my head.

Rob Loveless

I know we your one friend, Erica had a little book club back in February, where we all brought a book we read recently, and we just kind of talked through it or whatever. But she invited me to talk a little bit about besties and crime coming out. And someone there, we found out also going through a divorce.

So, when we first kind of presented the book, and we're talking about it, we said, Yeah, it's kind of based on us. And like, wait, did you? Did you really bring a house?

Or did you really kill your husband? Like, no, no, that part. Like the first beginning is the relationship part is what's true.

And the friendship dynamics, not the actual crime.

Sara Solomon

Right? Exactly. The besties is true.

The crime.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, exactly.

Sara Solomon

They're very tame people. And you know, there just has to be the other biggest takeaway from this is that you have just the best name for an author.

Rob Loveless

Well, thank you. I was born with it.

Sara Solomon

I was born with it. I did it on my own.

15:46 – Worst Crimes Committed

Rob Loveless

So, like we said, obviously, in the book, they burn down a house and her husband accidentally dies. However, it's not them you find out afterwards. And there's a mobster plot, which later spins into gunfights, burlesque shows, bank robberies, car chases, many just like riddling off all these crimes here.

Completely fictional again. But with that in mind, what is the worst crime you've committed in your life?

Sara Solomon

I'm such a rule follower.

Rob Loveless

That's why it's funny too, because like, we I don't know, I can't see us being that unrestrained like that, like just doing those things.

Sara Solomon

No, like, I can't picture either of us actually going through with any of the things that Jay and Gia are bold enough to go through with, even like the breaking in in the first place to get, what did we go to steal?

Rob Loveless

Money to go to AC.

Sara Solomon

Right? Yeah. Like even Jay and Gia breaking into a house that Gia formally or maybe still owned at the time of the book.

I don't remember if she still owned it during that time. But like, even just going behind someone's like back to do something like I can't. Personally, I'm getting high.

It's just thinking about doing something.

Rob Loveless

I mean, your name, I mean, Gia's name was still on the mortgage. So, it's fine. Which is what my character said.

Sara Solomon

It's very true. There was no law broken in that time.

Rob Loveless

Have, um, have your parents read it at all?

Sara Solomon

I know that they bought it. And I know that it was on their, the end table next to their reading chairs when I went home. So, I'm sure that they're working their way through it.

Rob Loveless

Oh, no. I'd be interested to hear their reactions. My, so my dad read it.

And like, my dad just has no, she's like, Oh, yeah, right. It was good. My mom's reading it.

And she's been laughing at when she read the first few chapters, and she was like, cracking on the phone to me. She's like, when you guys are tied up, and she says, I said, Don't get panicked. He's like, I could just see you and Sara doing that.

And she's now at the part where they, I think, escaped after the burlesque show. And she's like, obviously, I'm like, she's like, you know, the beginning, I could see you guys. I'm like, Oh, I know this.

I know this. But then when I'm getting to these things, I'm like, Oh, I didn't know that. So, I'm assuming this part's fiction, which is like, I can just see you guys saying all these things.

I'm like, I don't know if that's good or bad.

Sara Solomon

I don't know if it's good or bad. But the other thing my parents really appreciated, I don't know if they'd gotten this far yet. But they really appreciated that they themselves make an appearance in the book.

Rob Loveless

Oh, yes. Inconspicuous names.

Sara Solomon

No one would ever know who they are, in real life.

Rob Loveless

I know my mom told me that our parents were hanging out before the book came out. And you know, on Instagram, I was sharing all this like kind of AI cartoon images of like the key scenes in it. And so, I wish everybody out there knew your mom so they could just it's it's a better story to tell if you know how your mom is and how she talks and how cute she is.

But my mom's scrolling through the pictures, and then she gets to like the bank robbery scene. So, they're going through like, Oh, how funny. How cute.

She goes, Oh, oh, Sara's got a gun.

Sara Solomon

Oh, Sara's got a gun. Oh, dear. My mom is not Minnesotan, but she does speak with a Minnesotan accent at times.

Yeah.

Rob Loveless

I don't know if she even does or if we just make her out to have one.

Sara Solomon

Or maybe we maybe she doesn't. We just think that she does.

Rob Loveless

Shouldn't you get going now?

Sara Solomon

Shouldn’t you get going now. Oh, dear.

19:02 – Favorite Moments From Besties in Crime

Rob Loveless

So, I guess, what was your favorite twofold question? What was your favorite thing to see from real life appear in the book that you either knew about or didn't know was going to appear? And then what was your favorite fictional part that appeared in the book?

Sara Solomon

It's such a hard question. Let's see. I don't know.

Rob Loveless

Because you didn't read it. Yes, I did.

Sara Solomon

Seven books ago. I have to compartmentalize my mind. Okay.

And obviously, my favorite part of the fictionalized book is really when J and G are being chased down on the highway by the monsters. After they leave the motel. I think that's right.

The motel.

Rob Loveless

There's two. Yeah. When they leave Atlantic City and then when they leave the motel.

Sara Solomon

Favorite thing that really happens. Most of it didn't really happen. I mean, we really did go to AC.

Just not at that time.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. No, we went to go see Sugar Ray.

Sara Solomon

That wasn't in the book.

Rob Loveless

That wasn't in the book.

Sara Solomon

What do you think my favorite thing should be that showed up in the book that really happened? I mean, it really happened that it called you.

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

Sara Solomon

But it didn't show up at your door.

Rob Loveless

Well, we'll get to what's real and what's not real. I have a little segment at the end, but just if there was anything top of mind that jumped out.

Sara Solomon

I'm trying to think, but I need you to help me. We can cut this out. We can edit this out.

Okay.

Rob Loveless

Maybe I'll just leave it in. In our last episode, there was a lot of, all right, I'm going to cut this part out and I left it in because it made me laugh. Um, I don't know.

I guess, like, do you remember, like, is there any, like, quote that was your favorite that was really said or like a scene or?

Sara Solomon

I'll say the quote. I think my favorite thing that showed up in the book that kind of really happened, but it's still kind of not entirely true, is when we're driving away from the motel or being chased down by the mobsters and better the devil, you know, and she throws the phone out the window. I've felt that many times wanting to do that.

Rob Loveless

And we will get to it.

Sara Solomon

We will get to it and just rip the phone out of the, out of the aux cord and just take off better the devil, you know, I love you, Kylie. But we listened to it a lot during that time.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And I did send a copy of the book to Kylie because there's a lot of her appearance in it. Well, not her, but her songs appearance in it.

So, anybody knows her personally of all five Patreon subscribers out there listening, make sure you send this to her. So, she reads the book and gives us a little shout out and really inspired us in the book. She did.

And it's funny because kind of unintentionally too, because obviously love the song better the devil, you know, it's kind of like the theme song of the book. But when I wrote it, it was a lot of like antics of us, like laughing this and that. And there was an inside joke, which we'll get to about, you know, Kylie Minogue and better the devil, you know.

So obviously I put that in there just to kind of like torment Sara a little bit. But really, I do feel like at the end of the book, that theme really does kind of come true. Like they're both kind of stuck in their misery.

They come back together, but they stuck in their misery of, you know, what life looks like after the divorce. Like, who am I after this? And post breakup, you know, while my friend's lives are changing around me and I'm still figuring out who I am, like what, what does my life look like?

And then they get thrown into these crazy circumstances. And after surviving literal danger, they realize like, oh, we can kind of do anything. And then, you know, don't want to spoil it too much, but your character kind of moves on and, you know, becomes a little bit more independent, finds, finds a new relationship.

My character kind of finds his, you know, hobby he wants to reconnect to after he realizes like work can't be his life. So, it really is kind of like these new opportunities that are scary, but they're not afraid to embrace them anymore because of everything they've gone through. So better the devil you know.

Sara Solomon

Better the devil you know. Oh, it all comes together. What a big circle.

Rob Loveless

All comes together. And unintentional too.

Sara Solomon

Unintentional circle. I love that. Thank you, Kylie.

Rob Loveless

Thank you, Kylie.

Sara Solomon

And then to answer the second part of your question, my favorite thing that I saw in the book that didn't actually happen was us performing at the burlesque show. I don't think anything can really get much better than just living out your truth and your dreams on stage.

Rob Loveless

Absolutely. And there are, because we do say in that you're getting ready to go on the burlesque show and my character, and you're like, oh, I look like I'm from like a Britney Vegas residence commercial or something like that. And I'm like, which is good.

We love Britney. And then we like say like, blessed be the Holy Spirit. So, there are some Britney, Britney references in there too.

Sara Solomon

Well, Britney's our girl.

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

Sara Solomon

I'm like, Kylie is your girl. I appreciate Kylie. Kylie is your girl.

Britney is our girl.

Rob Loveless

Absolutely.

Sara Solomon

Exactly, Dr. Phil.

Rob Loveless

Now we have to tag Wine & Crime in this. Okay. Well, yeah.

24:03 – Personal Growth, Independence, and Life After a Breakup

Rob Loveless

So basically, I guess before we kind of start wrapping things up here, the book's kind of a few identities. One, it is about friendship, but then it's also two, overcoming breakups and then three, just crazy queer crime caper chaos. So, with all that in mind, how would you kind of, you know, summarize the book as it relates to the breakup and identity, more specifically of how you relate to it after obviously, you and me inspired it.

But like, from a personal level of what you've gone through, how do you think that theme ties into the book?

Sara Solomon

I think that the book shows a lot of growth in the two main characters. It's kind of like you said a little bit earlier. And I think you and I have definitely grown since even since 2020, which is kind of wild because when you think about it, it's only been six years ago or like feels like two months ago.

It was such a long time ago. But you and I have definitely grown so much since you even got the twinkle in your eye about this book being written and just where even you and I were in our lives at that point. We were both still, I feel like maybe a little sheltered from the world, even though we were like kind of in our mid 20s.

We were kind of following just what people expected us to do at the time. And look at us now. Oh my gosh.

So, we've I feel like we've broken our molds and we've come out much better than we were. And you started your podcast. You have written three books, three books, I think.

Rob Loveless

I don't count some of them.

Sara Solomon

So, I think you've written that you are a you are world famous author, world famous author. Um, I do you know that I googled you the other day, just like for something or I hit your name on something and it came up and it said Rob Loveless is the author of besties and crime. Oh, that's your first thing on Google.

Rob Loveless

Wow.

Sara Solomon

I know. How exciting is that? Like, look at you and like how far you've come to be able to get to that point.

So. So I forget what the question was, but I do think that I do think that Jay have both in the book and outside of the book. I think they connected in the fact that they they came full circle in the fact that they overcame their their relationships at the time and even their youth a little bit and have truly blossomed and matured in the upcoming years that have since happened.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I agree. And it's funny how you say that with like how we kind of, you know, we're sheltered still at that time, because separate from when the book was written, you know, when you went through your divorce, when I went through my breakup, I do feel we weren't kids by any means. We were like 25, 26 around there.

But like we had done college. We did. You know, we went to grad school for myself when I finished grad school.

That's when I started dating again and started like because I'm like, I have all this time. What am I going to do now? So, I kind of just threw myself into that.

And for you, like, you know, college, grad school, this relationship, then divorce. So, it's like it did feel kind of like, oh, we're kind of like adults now, like these are like adult problems that were, you know, it didn't just feel like, oh, for me, it didn't feel like, oh, here's a relationship thing that ended. It was just a little thing, but it felt very heavy because it felt more adult because it's like, oh, wait, I have the job.

I'm out of college. I'm like, aren't I supposed to be like lining up, you know, suitors here? But yeah, and so it's, it's interesting, because I do feel weathered, but I feel like I've, you know, grown up since then.

And even looking at them, I'm like, oh, this is kind of anticky in a funny way, but in a way that feels different than how we might go about things now, even with each other in the book, like we're snappy, which is funny. We still do that, but it just is different. And also, a lot has changed.

I actually live in Philadelphia now. The book's based in Philly, which is why, you know, at the time Sara was living there, she, you know, ditched me to go to the suburbs. So, she's just miles and miles away.

But I, you know, ended up moving to Philly, very Philly adjacent book. So, jobs, I think that was like four jobs ago when I wrote this book. So, a lot has changed since then.

Sara Solomon

A lot has changed. And like, even just going back, not to like dwelling on our sheltered past, but I feel like you and I also just like followed what we were supposed to do and what, you know, our, our upbringing and society kind of has made people think that they're supposed to do like, oh, you're supposed to graduate, and then you're supposed to date, and then you're supposed to get married, and then you're supposed to have babies, and then you're supposed to die together.

Rob Loveless

And, and we will together.

Sara Solomon

We will, you and I will die together once I go on the ground. But, but there's like so many other paths that nobody ever tells you about. And like, your path is you graduated grad school, and then you started your own business.

So, and like, you don't, you don't need a man to do anything.

Rob Loveless

I literally don't have time for one.

Sara Solomon

So now don't have time for any of that.

Rob Loveless

At this point, it's like Cher Horowitz from Clueless, like, get off of me.

Sara Solomon

Yeah. So, I appreciate that. And then I appreciate also that, like, at the end of the book, Jay realizes that, that he would rather go on with his hobbies than put any more effort into dwelling on his past relationships, or even looking for new relationships.

He wants to focus on himself. And, gee, it's just a little slut.

Rob Loveless

A little slut. Is that what you're gonna say? Well, it’s your life bitch.

Sara Solomon

Well, it’s your life. Gia doesn’t learn anything.

Rob Loveless

She just jumps to the next dick.

Sara Solomon

And then Gia also overcomes like her, her feelings of needing to, to rely on people and comes out in the end of the book, knowing that she only needs to rely on herself. And then that leads her to a, I am biased, but a better relationship in the end.

Rob Loveless

Well, I haven't written the sequel, so we'll see if it's a better relationship, but.

Sara Solomon

We'll find out.

Rob Loveless

But it's interesting with your answer there because you're talking about like, you know, the expectations of life and stuff. So, when I first wrote the book, it's a little bit of a different order than it is now. The first chapter is my character is in this apartment.

Your character shows up saying she's getting divorced and they rekindle it. Went back to add some things because I felt like it seemed a little, I liked it, but it seemed slow at the beginning until you get to the crime part. So, I want to sprinkle it through so people know it's coming.

So, you know, it starts off that the characters are already captured and it's like, how did they get into this mess? And it's like a month and a half earlier type of thing. And it shows, especially the first few chapters are a little jumpy between somebody, you know, surveilling your character's house, my character meeting his boring friends who are like all about the relationship and rubbing it in his face.

And then your character who's driving to the city, not knowing where she's going now that she's going through divorce, just crying. And when we did the podcast episode in 2023, you had said in years that you felt like you were going through like checking life's boxes. Like, you know, I went to school, I was in this relationship.

I got married, it felt like all of a sudden, like I'm not checking the boxes off, I'm falling behind. And so, as it relates to your answer there, I kind of ended up adding that into the newer chapter I wrote for your character, like I think two years ago when I added it in when she's driving to the city about, you know, she felt like she was checking off the boxes and now what this and that. So, it very much that it does touch upon like how you kind of overcome the expectations of not even what people expect of you, but what you thought your life would be and just kind of get in touch with what you need in that moment.

And for myself, you know, post that breakup, that my character's breakup is based on, that's when I realized like, all right, I'm gonna get back to writing. So, I used to like writing, but I just didn't have time for grad school. And then I threw myself into like dating became my hobby.

And I didn't immediately write this book. I wrote another one before that, but that's kind of how the book ends with my character going back and writing it. And the chapter that he writes at the end or the piece that the book goes out with is actually the starting chapter of how the book initially started to kind of show like the full circle moment there.

Sara Solomon

Oh, that is right. I do like that.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, it'll be interesting. So, I don't write sequels, cause I don't know how, like I feel like it's like, not that I don't know how, but you know, it's like, how do I do this? So, it's still the same feeling, but it's not copy paste.

But I do think it'd be interesting to go back and write a sequel because one, I feel like we don't have, there's pieces we could pull in that are true, but I don't think it could be as largely true as the relationship dynamic is. But also, to see like our characters like five or six years later, they're a little bit more grown up, like assuming your little fling with that guy worked at the end and that my book worked or whatever. And it's like, what is the next crime and like where are their lives at now that like they're still not there yet and still figuring things out.

So, it'd be fun to explore. Who knows? Bessie's incarcerated maybe?

Sara Solomon

Well, we know that we have one of our very good friends is really pushing for you to write a sequel.

Rob Loveless

Because she wants to be in it.

Sara Solomon

Because she wants to be in it.

32:54 – Fact or Fiction?

Rob Loveless

Well, with that in mind, like I said, we have been talking a lot about and making jokes about what's true and what's not. And actually, at one point, my friend Shane was like, Rob, you have to stop saying that you and Sara burnt down a house. People are gonna think you're telling the truth.

So yeah, we're also working on hiring a lawyer just to make sure we're covered. But I thought it'd be fun to kind of close out this little episode with a fact or fiction section. So, I pulled some things from the book and I'm gonna kind of go through like, in this chapter this happened or say a little scene or situation or personality trait.

And I want you to tell me, and if you get it wrong, that's fine, it's actually funny if you get it wrong. But I want you to tell me if you think it's fact, if it's based off of something that we actually went through or whatever, if it's a real event really said, or if it's fiction that was just made for the book. So, are you ready for this?

Sara Solomon

I'm ready, I'm excited.

Rob Loveless

All right, I'm going in chronological order of the book. So first one, did we actually burn down a house? No.

Sara Solomon

Didn't really burn down a house.

Rob Loveless

Legally, I cannot say that I did that. But no, but so obviously in the book, Gia goes through her divorce and she meets Jay, cries to him about the breakup and ends up living with him. Did we ever live together?

Sara Solomon

We never lived together. Sadly, what a missed opportunity. But you would have hated me if we were a mate.

Rob Loveless

I would have.

Sara Solomon

Yes.

Rob Loveless

Some of our Airbnb's have been too much for me.

Sara Solomon

All I can think of is us leaving Houston together after three days together.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, it was a lot.

Sara Solomon

We were just ready to leave.

Rob Loveless

But in our defense, there were some outside factors there that were not in our control. Oh boy, okay. Shitty job that was killing me, a plane that delayed you almost 48 hours, entire trip, you know.

Sara Solomon

You know. It was fine.

Rob Loveless

Anyway, so fact or fiction, in chapter one, Gia blurts out that she has IBS and a high stress situation to get out of that situation. And Jay immediately backs her up with a story about her spending most of her rehearsal dinner in the bathroom.

Sara Solomon

That's false. Partially false. I mean, I think everybody has IBS.

But that particular situation is false.

Rob Loveless

Correct. The rehearsal dinner was fine both times. I don't recall any bathroom incidents.

Both times. Okay. In chapter four, Gia cries in her car, pulls over, and has a full breakdown on the side of the road before continuing to drive.

Sara Solomon

Oh, that's absolutely true. For many different reasons, many different times.

Rob Loveless

Well, this specific one I'm referencing.

Sara Solomon

This specific one, yes. This absolutely happened. I remember I was leaving the YMCA, and I.

Rob Loveless

I was leaving the YMCA.

Sara Solomon

And I was, yeah, it was the day after he told me he wanted to separate. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna go for a workout at the YMCA. So, I did.

And then I was leaving the YMCA, and then I was like, oh, shit, he wants to separate. And then I had a full-blown mental panic attack, and I pulled over and I called RJ.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, well, you didn't end up showing up in Pittsburgh unannounced. You did call me while I was out at work. I'm like, uh-oh, because I knew you had already kind of alluded things were going well.

Sara Solomon

I remember you just answered like, we're separating. So dramatic.

Rob Loveless

Actually, I think you were still driving when you called me, and then you said, oh, wait, I can't see. I need to pull over, because you're crying so hard.

Sara Solomon

I pulled into a TD Bank parking lot. I drove by that yesterday, also. Gave it a little finger wag.

Rob Loveless

Not sponsored.

Sara Solomon

Not sponsored. I gave it a little finger wag and said, hey, I remember you, and then I'm gone.

Rob Loveless

Hey, this looks like a great spot to cry in.

Sara Solomon

This looks like a great spot to pull over. Oh, my God.

Rob Loveless

Well, that's fun.

Sara Solomon

Yeah.

Rob Loveless

All right, well, unlike Gia, you're actually a huge Kylie Minogue fan.

Sara Solomon

No disrespect to anybody, but, no.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I got really into Kylie Minogue in 2018 and 2019, and Sara and I would send each other song recommendations, but you just never listened to the ones I sent, and for some reason, Better the Devil, I don't even think I sent you Better the Devil, you know that much, but I remember I would just say to you, Sara, what do they say, Sara?

Sara Solomon

So, we got to a part of, around this time period of codependency. We were on the phone every morning, usually at the same time every morning while we both drove to work, and the song just was on a lot, and we got into a routine.

Rob Loveless

For anybody who doesn't know the lyrics, Kylie says, cause it's true what they say, it's better the devil you know, but I got to a point where I would just say, cause it's true what they say, and then I'd shout, what do they say, Sara?

Sara Solomon

What do they say, Sara?

Rob Loveless

And she came around to it. We just, we sang karaoke to this not that long ago.

Sara Solomon

Ew, I do like that part, I like the chorus.

Rob Loveless

Yes, we like when we shout, what do they say to each other.

Sara Solomon

Yes, we love a gimmick.

Rob Loveless

So yes, she respects Kylie, but she's not a stan, unfortunately, but that's okay, Kylie, I'm the one you want anyway. But, moving right along. In chapter five, Jay reminisces on the time when Gia yelled at a bouncer for kicking him out of a bar, and shouts, why?

Cause he's gay?

Sara Solomon

That is true. Rob had come to visit me in Philly.

Rob Loveless

I think it was the first time I visited you in Philly.

Sara Solomon

Yeah, so it was a long time ago.

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

Sara Solomon

And it did really happen.

Rob Loveless

I was still living in Jersey at the time, so it was the first time.

Sara Solomon

Oh, you were, we were babies. We were like early 20s.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I had just turned 22.

Sara Solomon

Yeah, yeah, and we were in a bar, and we weren't even doing anything. It was another guy.

Rob Loveless

The way I recall it is, was I drunk? Absolutely. But it was very crowded, and Sara and I wanted to go outside, so I had I think a little deck area, and we were just gonna go outside, and it was so crowded, so you're like pushing through shoulder to shoulder, and I tripped over someone's foot, but the bouncer thought that I fell because I was wasted, and so he's like, you guys are out of here, and I don't like confrontation.

So, I was like, okay, and I just start walking out, but then this little 4'11 Philly flame here just runs up to this guy who's like, I don't know, six foot, like 450, and just starts screaming at him, why, why? Cause he's gay. I'm like, Sara, let's go, we're going.

Actually, hold on a second. I have, this is where that photo's from.

Sara Solomon

That's the same night!

Rob Loveless

And full circle, this is what you gave me in my groomsman box when you asked me to be Frank's groomsman in the first wedding.

Sara Solomon

And the circle is complete.

Rob Loveless

Oh, what a great circle it was. Okay. All right, in chapter six, Gia gets emotional over finally being able to take a bath again once she's at Jay's apartment because her husband started retiling their tub a year ago and never finished it.

Sara Solomon

That is true. Oh, that poor bathroom. Never had a chance.

Rob Loveless

Now you did go back to the house a few times after everything happened. Do you know if it was ever finished?

Sara Solomon

I think I, the very last time I was there, I think it was finished.

Rob Loveless

And I did take a quick bath.

Sara Solomon

And I did take a quick bath. Oh, all I wanted to do was take a bath.

Rob Loveless

It's so funny too, because, so we have a group text with Sara and some of our friends and one of them was reading it and like live texting. She's like, sorry, I promise I'll stop doing this. I'm like, no, keep doing it.

I like it. But she was like, is the bathtub part true? I feel like it is.

Or no, she asked if the bar part was true. And she's like, oh, I remember the bathtub part.

Sara Solomon

Yeah, bathtub, bar and bathtub. Bars and bathtubs.

Rob Loveless

Because, and then when you moved into your apartment after that, you were so sad because it had a beautiful rainfall shower, but you just wanted a bathtub.

Sara Solomon

But it didn't have a bathtub. All I wanted was my bath.

Rob Loveless

Well, she's moved on. She has the tub. She's taken baths since.

Sara Solomon

Taken baths since, yes. She's fine. She is healed.

Rob Loveless

She's healed. In chapter seven, Gia explains that in the midst of her breakup with Frank, she asked what he wanted to do and he said he wanted to separate. To which Gia replies, well, we're not going to do that.

And then grabbed his birthday presents from the closet and yelled, here, these are for you and walked out.

Sara Solomon

Yeah, that's true. Well, we're not doing that.

Rob Loveless

So, controlling.

Sara Solomon

Oh, yeah.

Rob Loveless

There's really nothing else to say about that. That's absolutely true.

Sara Solomon

There's really nothing else to say about that. That is absolutely true. I said no, and it happened anyway.

For the best, but still.

Rob Loveless

Everything works out eventually.

Sara Solomon

Everything works out.

Rob Loveless

In chapter eight, Jay jokes that things would never have worked out with his ex, Vic, because Vic was allergic to eucalyptus.

Sara Solomon

Is that true?

Rob Loveless

No, I just, I do love the scent of eucalyptus. So, when Jay said it's his favorite scent, that's not a lie. But that, that's not why things wouldn't have worked out.

Sara Solomon

It's because- Well, I know that that's why things didn't work out. But I wasn't sure if Vic was actually allergic to eucalyptus.

Rob Loveless

No, just commitment and looking me in the eye at my birthday dinner and paying for it. I'm fine. We see who's more successful.

In chapter 25, Jay and Gia are caught up in a high-speed car chase, trying to get away from the mobsters. And the mobsters pull up alongside of them with a gun and Jay begins pounding on the window because he can't speak. And Gia shouts, your words, Jay, use your words.

Sara Solomon

Half of that's true. We were driving on, we're in Philly, so we were driving on 76. And there were guns, because it's Philly.

There were no guns that we know of. And some car just started coming into our lane and Rob just starts pounding on the window.

Rob Loveless

I couldn't speak.

Sara Solomon

I said, what? What did you say?

Rob Loveless

You were like, Oh, because I was, so actually this was the first time I visited you in your apartment since everything happened, because I threw the confetti in your face when I greeted you.

Sara Solomon

Which I'm still finding.

Rob Loveless

Well, you moved out, it's gone. I'm still finding you. We had a whole little Philly week, because I think I actually came down to visit during the week.

I took a few days off. And we were driving back to your apartment from the city and there was a car that just was merging like three lanes at once, not looking. And I saw them coming into our lane.

And obviously because I wasn't driving, I couldn't just turn the wheel. So, I just couldn't speak. So, I just started hitting the window.

And I went, Sara, Sara.

Sara Solomon

Sara, Sara, look, Sara.

Rob Loveless

And I do believe you shouted your words, use your words.

Sara Solomon

Use your words, use your words.

Rob Loveless

I don't know, actually, I don't know if the use your words part is true, but I know you were like, what, what? So loosely, loosely true.

Sara Solomon

Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. That's funny.

Rob Loveless

In chapter 28, Gia reads her high school nemesis to filth and then punches her in the face.

Sara Solomon

Gia does what? Reads to filth?

Rob Loveless

Reads her high school nemesis to filth and then punches her in the face.

Sara Solomon

What does that mean? Reads her to filth?

Rob Loveless

Like when you read somebody, like you tell them off. That's a thing. You've never heard that expression?

No. They talk about it all the time on Real Housewives.

Sara Solomon

Reads to filth.

Rob Loveless

They're like, I read her to filth. Like that type of thing.

Sara Solomon

No, I think you're making that up.

Rob Loveless

Sara, it's not, Google it right now. Google.

Sara Solomon

Fact check. Real time. What is it?

Rob Loveless

Keyboard clack ASMR. It is, just say reads to filth.

Sara Solomon

Read to filth. Read to filth. Meaning, oh my God, there is a thing.

Is slang to thoroughly, harshly, and often wittily criticize or insult somebody. What?

Rob Loveless

I can't, this isn't new. I'm not up to date with the latest vocabulary.

Sara Solomon

Oh, oh, it's used in RuPaul's Drag Race. Well, you learn something new every day. That unfortunately didn't happen, but there's always time.

Rob Loveless

There's always time.

Sara Solomon

There's always time to go back home.

Rob Loveless

Actually, a week from tomorrow, or a week from yesterday, we'll be back home. So maybe we'll bump into Ursula and Sean.

Sara Solomon

Bump into them.

Rob Loveless

But the name Ursula Jones is a loose association to the person we mean it to be.

Sara Solomon

Oh yes, very loose, but fitting once you realize.

Rob Loveless

Yes, that's all we'll say. And I'll say no more. In chapter 38, Jay tells Jia that post-breakup, he bleached his hair.

Sara Solomon

And it happened.

Rob Loveless

Only partially, it wasn't post-breakup. I did it during COVID a year later, because I felt free.

Sara Solomon

Oh shoot, that's right. Okay, so it did happen though. I have a picture of Rob on my phone, where he sent me it.

And he has the hood, his hood is like halfway up, and he has this bleached blonde hair, and he's in a praying stance, and he looks like the mother Mary.

Rob Loveless

The blessed version.

Sara Solomon

The blessed version mother Mary.

Rob Loveless

But I think this part may be fact, which I said in the book, I did feel very Freddie Prinze Jr. when I first got it done from Scooby-Doo.

Sara Solomon

You did, and you did say that, and you were not wrong.

Rob Loveless

Yes.

Sara Solomon

I told you I liked it. And then you said, you didn't like it. I told you to keep it.

Rob Loveless

I liked it when it grew out a little bit, and you could see the roots just a little bit. But then, because it was COVID, there were no haircuts, so it just looked really trashy real fast. And then I was going to see my family, and I was embarrassed that I bleached my hair, because I didn't know how they'd react to it.

So, then I went to dye it back, but I dyed it black instead of my dark brown. So, I had three or four different hair colors going on at once. So, then I just shaved it all.

Sara Solomon

What a good time the pandemic was.

Rob Loveless

Honestly, I only remember the good. Sorry, I'm just kidding. All right, here's the last one.

At the very end of the book, after the chaos of the divorce and mobster mix-up, Gia reveals that she has a date with a nice Jewish boy named Steven.

Sara Solomon

That is accurate. That did happen.

Rob Loveless

And- Now she's married to him.

Sara Solomon

And she did marry him. But for undisclosed reasons, we will not say why his name is Steven, because he was Steve.

Rob Loveless

But basically, we did refer to him as Steven.

Sara Solomon

We did refer to him- Even though that's not his name. Steven was his formal name. Yes.

Rob Loveless

Yes. And he is Jewish.

Sara Solomon

And he is Jewish.

Rob Loveless

So, kind of true.

Sara Solomon

Kind of true. So yeah, that's true.

Rob Loveless

Perfect. Well, there you have it. That was fun.

Sara Solomon

That was fun.

47:05 – Why You Should Read Besties in Crime

Rob Loveless

So, as we wrap up here, Sara, I guess just maybe like headline about the book and why people should read it. Go.

Sara Solomon

I mean, it's the best thing you're ever gonna read this whole year. You're not gonna read it. You're not gonna find anything better.

Run, do not walk to go get this book.

Rob Loveless

Run like the characters on the book cover.

Sara Solomon

Run like the characters on the book cover. No, but if you do want just something that is quick-witted and easy to read and just like a little palate cleanser, definitely run and get this book.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And if you need any copies, let me know. I bought like 12, so I have a bunch of them.

But yeah. And if you do end up reading it, I would greatly appreciate if you could leave a ranking and review so it can help other people find it.

Sara Solomon

Obviously.

Rob Loveless

Well, this has been lovely. Second time this year you're on the podcast.

Sara Solomon

This has been lovely. I know, two times one year.

Rob Loveless

Oh, so exciting. Well, Sara, thank you so much for joining. For all the listeners out there, I hope you enjoyed this April bonus episode and I will see you next month. Mmm-bye.

47:59 – Episode Closing

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, the two of wands in reverse, I think based upon what we talked about and the plot of Besties in Crime, this card is definitely telling us that we might be scared to step out into the unknown. Like Kylie Minogue says, it's better the devil you know.

And that lyric comes from the idiom, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. Meaning sometimes it feels safer staying in a situation you're not content in because it's familiar. And while it can be scary to take action outside of your comfort zone, that may be exactly what we need to move into a situation that's more in alignment with what we want.

And I think these situations come up more frequently as we get older, whether it's changing jobs, relationships, cities, whatever. Because it's inevitable that we're going to outgrow things. But the number two in this card reminds us of the importance of partnership and choice.

And just like in Besties in Crime, you don't have to go through these changes alone.

48:46 – Connect with A Jaded Gay

Rob Loveless

So, thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed that.

And I'd really appreciate if you checked out my book, Besties in Crime. I'll include the link to that in the show notes. If you have any questions or feedback about this episode or the book, you can email rob@ajadedgay.com.

Also, let's keep the conversation going. Head on over to our official Discord server, the LGBTQuties Lounge, to connect with myself and other listeners. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Five stars only, I greatly appreciate it.

For more information on this topic, episode resources, blog posts, merchandise, links to socials, all that fun stuff, you can visit the website at ajadedgay.com. You can connect with the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgay.

You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless. Also, if you're feeling generous, consider supporting the podcast on Patreon for as little as a dollar a month that gets you instant access to episodes, ad-free, a day early, plus exclusive monthly bonus content. Or if you just wanna access the monthly bonus episodes, you can purchase them for $3 each.

And if you're scared of commitment, don't worry, I get it. You can make a one-time donation on Buy Me A Coffee for any dollar amount, and both a Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee are @ajadedgay.

And remember: every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness. Mmm-bye.