159. Reclaim Your Queer Identity Through Self-Compassion (with Sam Fogarty)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Sam Fogarty

Especially as queer men, it is really threatening to feel growing up. To feel would be dangerous as a boy, and especially as a queer boy who has a lot of feelings that would essentially out him.

We learn to really block that off. So, the first goal is always just to feel.

Episode Introduction (0:37)

Rob Loveless 

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless, and today, I am a non-jaded gay because I finally feel like I got a chance to catch up.

I've had so much going on all these weekends in the past couple months, and this past weekend, I've just really didn't have that much to do.

Like, I just kind of hung around the house. I got some things done. I allowed myself to even be lazy and watch a little TV and just kind of chill and walk around the neighborhood.

So, it feels really good to just kind of catch my breath and feel like I'm not rushing to get things done right now, which I'm sure will change as soon as the week starts. But for right now, yeah, I feel relaxed.

Self-Compassion & Queer Identity (1:12)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, from being caught up to being compassionate. Today, I am very excited to have a special guest join us to talk all about how we can be kinder to ourselves as queer people.

And in a lot of the episodes in the past, we've talked about being kind to ourselves, treating ourselves the way we would treat our friends, and really, that we have to kind of cultivate that compassion within if we want to learn to love ourselves, so we can accept genuine love and compassion from others.

Again, easier said than done, but today I did kind of want to deep dive into that topic. So, I'm very excited to have our guests come on to talk all things about self-compassion.

But before we do that, you know the drill. Let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (1:50)

Rob Loveless

So today we drew the Nine of Cups in reverse. As you'll remember, Cups is tied to the element of water. It's feminine energy, so it's asking us to meditate and reflect.

And Cups is tied to our emotions, and you can think of them flowing freely like water. And in numerology, nine signifies we're almost at the end of a cycle or journey.

So, we just need to push a little further. But when we draw the Nine of Cups in reverse, it's indicating we may be needing constant validation and recognition around our accomplishments, or that we may be overindulging in material pleasures.

And when this happens, it seems like we've achieved everything we want in life, but we're still feeling a sense of emptiness.

So, we need to look within, to reflect on what will bring us true happiness, and start working toward that. 

And it's important that we do things that align with what we want for ourselves, instead of what we think will get the most validation from others.

Guest Introduction (2:39)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, I'm very excited to welcome today's guest. He is a licensed therapist and clinical supervisor at myTherapyNYC.

Please welcome Sam Fogarty. Hi, Sam. How are you today?

Sam Fogarty

I am doing very well. Thank you so much for having me.

Rob Loveless

Of course, thanks for coming on today. I know we were talking up front how it's a beautiful Saturday. We've both been enjoying the sun.

So, I feel sunlight always kind of gets like the good vibes flowing. So, I'm hoping the rest of the rest of the conversation continues with that optimism.

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, absolutely. I'm a very optimistic guy, so the so the sunny vibes are very welcome.

Rob Loveless

Well, in pretty much every episode I've covered in the past, there's some tie into therapy, self-compassion, self-empowerment. So big fans of all that.

So, I'm excited to have you on today to talk a little bit more through your practice, the work you do, some mental health tips for us as queer people.

But before we get into all that, I was wondering, can you introduce yourself to the listeners? Tell them a little bit about yourself, how you identify, pronouns, background, all that fun stuff?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah. My name is Sam Fogarty. I am a licensed mental health counselor. I use he/him and they/them pronouns. I identify as a queer white man, I am sober, and that's about it.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. And I like to ask all my guests today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay, and why?

Sam Fogarty

I am a non-jaded gay. I am just like a very romantic, optimistic person, and unfortunately, I really do believe in the inherent goodness of people, but maybe fortunately, actually.

Rob Loveless

I think fortunately. That's a good outlook to have, because I feel like during these times, it could be more challenging than ever to assume goodness in people, or that people are acting with good intent.

So, I think it's a good mindset you have to kind of help cut through some of the jadedness and the gloom and doom in society today.

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, absolutely. You have to hold a little bit of hope at all times.

Rob Loveless

Absolutely. Well, I guess we should just dive right into it. Obviously, we're going to be talking all about LGBTQ+ mental health.

So, to start off, can you tell us about your career as an LGBTQ+ therapist and how your own experiences as a gay man shaped that path?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually going to answer that two ways. The first is kind of the answer that I had when I was getting into therapy, which is really just to, like, give back to my own queer community.

I have a really distinct memory of coming back from therapy in eighth grade. I was struggling a lot with social anxiety and whatnot.

And I was just talking about how much I loved therapy in that session that day, something must have clicked.

I don't remember what it was, but one of those, like, good aha moments, even as an eighth grader. And my mom had said she was like, you know, you can do that as a career. And it just felt really right.

And I just held on to that. And then as I kind of grew into my queer identity, I really shifted to wanting to be specifically like an LGBTQ+ therapist.

But now, with more insight, a lot more reflection over the years, I've realized that growing up gay and being like bullied and constantly made to feel othered, I started to really have to like, make sense of other people's negative behavior towards me.

I really became very like, attuned to other people and trying to almost come up with hypotheses for what was going on inside their heads, to kind of make myself okay, or make sense of these senseless things that were happening to me.

Obviously, that's a very anxious positioning to others and to the world, but in a way, I think it actually makes me a very good therapist at times, because while I can't mind read, there has been like that part of me from a very young age that wanted to kind of like, get in the minds of others and try to understand even when it felt like they were in opposition to me.

myTherapyNYC (6:25)

Rob Loveless

So, with that in mind, what led you to myTherapyNYC and what sets it apart from other therapy practices?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, I've been working at myTherapyNYC for about two and a half years now, and it's been a great experience. I think initially, what really drew me there was we have a very, like, diverse team.

And that means that I'm always learning, even though I'm, like, fully licensed, and I've been doing this for a second now, I always learn things from my peers.

They have very different lived experiences than me, and it means that I can, like, bring a specific client or case or experience that I'm having, and oftentimes someone's answer, someone's response, will just make me think, like, oh my God, I didn't think of it that way.

And it's always just so exciting and so refreshing. We also practice a really like relational approach, which means that I can show up very authentically as a therapist.

I always tell my clients that I bring myself to the room. I'm not some like Freudian therapist who puts on some persona or like a blank slate.

The way that I'm talking right now is exactly how I show up in therapy, which I think clients really appreciate.

I think it just makes people feel much more comfortable to be themselves and to show all of themselves in therapy, which can be really vulnerable.

Rob Loveless

And your practice centers on the idea of feel, connect, transform. So, can you walk us through what that means and how it guides the work you do with your clients?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, a big mission statement, right? This is really like borrowed and informed by AEDP, which is the type of therapy that we do.

It stands for Accelerated, Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy, which is quite the mouthful, so we just shorten it to that.

It blends a lot of like attachment theory, somatic, psychodynamics, it borrows from, like a lot of different psychological theories.

And essentially, like these three steps, feel, connect, transform, is at the heart of every therapy, every treatment that we do.

So, when you think about feeling, our goal is to first just have the client stop reflecting so much on almost like the content of what's going on in their life, and focus more on how they are feeling about their position in the world, or about their experience of the world.

And a lot of us are blocked from that, especially as queer men, like it is really threatening to feel growing up.

To feel would be dangerous as a boy, and especially as a queer boy who has a lot of feelings that would essentially out him. So, we learned to really block that off.

So, the first goal is always just to feel and not just like, oh, I think I feel sad or I should feel sad, but oh, like I feel sad. I feel it in my body. I feel this heaviness. I feel the tears coming up.

And then from there, connect. Connect both with yourself, but also with your therapist, with a trusted, safe other.

How rare is it that we can feel so utterly vulnerable in the face of another person and undo some of the aloneness of that experience?

Again, I think of queer men and queer boys like growing up and feeling so unbearably alone, and it's just like this despondent place.

So, to be able to connect with a therapist can be so incredibly healing, even if it looks simple from the outside. And that's exactly what is transformative about this type of therapy.

You experience that relational healing in real time in the room. You feel your way through things, you make sense of it afterwards, and how that felt, maybe different from so many experiences in your life. 

And then you're able to carry that relational healing outside of that space. You deepen your friendships, you shift your relationships to be healthier, for you, to be safer, to be more secure.

And that is just so enriching, because we're humans. We need that. So that's our motto.

And the way that plays out looks very different for every client, but that's something that we always come back to. Feel, connect, transform.

Rob Loveless

I love that. And you also focus a lot on radical acceptance and helping people break free from social norms that no longer serve them.

So, how does that show up in the therapy room, especially with LGBTQ+ clients?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, again, another one of those words, like radical acceptance, that's been so popularized. And I think when people hear the word acceptance, they think making themselves okay with whatever's going on. 

And I really want to dispel that. Like that is not true. Acceptance means looking at what is actually happening, not avoiding it. Just kind of facing reality, facing your feelings, and moving from a place of frustration or resentment or jadedness, possibly, and accepting that.

And accepting that might not be pleasant. It's not liberating at first. It can be deeply threatening and scary. It might be really sad to accept something or angering or whatever it might be, but at that point, at least you're accepting something, so you know what you need to do.

And when I talk about like helping people break free from social norms, that is kind of a fancy way of saying undoing shame.

And again, shame is like a big word that's thrown around a lot. I'm sure lots of people have read The Velvet Rage, which really focuses in on shame, which is a very like, isolating and lonely experience.

The way that shows up in the room in a way that you can almost like catch it for yourself, because I think a lot of people assume, oh, I don't carry shame. I'm an out gay man. I go out to Fire Island.

I go out and I have, like, all these great experiences with all my queer friends. But you can still carry a lot of shame within that.

The way that you can kind of catch that or see that for yourself is whenever you say, like, oh, I should do something, that usually means it's someone else's idea rather than your own.

Or you have, like, these really harsh inner critics that are really intense, calling you lazy or fat or unmotivated or ugly, like all of these things.

That's usually an indication of some of that shame and and we deal with that shame in a lot of different ways. We might change the way that we present to other people. We might conceal certain parts of ourselves.

We might engage in some kind of like, uglier coping skills with like drinking or gambling, substance use, sex, all those things which by themselves are great, they're actually quite pleasurable, right?

But when they're used to cope with something like shame, it doesn't actually resolve anything. It just kind of gets you into this gridlock, this stuckness, which is really just like a lack of safety.

There's no calmness, really. It's just like numbing, and it gets layered and layered. So sometimes I view my job as a therapist as just kind of observing all of that and just slowly picking away at it.

So, it's not so threatening to undo all of that, but we have to start somewhere, right?

LGBTQ+ Couples Therapy (14:00)

Rob Loveless

Absolutely. And through talking about working through that shame, I think a lot of us want to feel a sense of connection with someone, whether it's through love or sex or community.

So, I think it's really important that we learn to address those topics, to feel the most authentic and fulfilled we can be, to form those healthier connections.

And taking it from there, in addition to working with individuals, you also work with LGBTQ+ couples.

So, what unique dynamics do you see come up in these relationships?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah. I, it's tough, because for LGBTQ+ couples, obviously that they can all look so different, right?

But I think overall, for LGBTQ+ people, we're navigating relationships oftentimes without a clear blueprint as to what things can look like.

And the blueprint we inherited, especially if we have like cisgender straight parents or family members, it's oftentimes really heteronormative, and at the very least, it's a little bit dated.

It's of a different generation. So, a really common dynamic I see with LGBTQ+ couples is kind of okay, they're in a relationship, they love each other. Now, what? Right, like, where do we go from here?

Do we just stay doing this? Is that okay with us? What do we want to build towards? Do we want a family? Do we want to get married? Do we not?

Do we want to leave an urban setting, or do we want to stay here? And even as I'm saying this, I notice it feels both like exciting and daunting, right?

And I think with my LGBTQ+ couples, that's one of my favorite parts, actually, of working with queer people, is that we are so liberated, but sometimes that can feel a little bit overwhelming.

So essentially, it's kind of our work to sift through that. But that's a really common dynamic that I see overall with LGBTQ+ couples.

It's kind of like we're liberated now, what, where do we go? And I love doing that work. So meaningful.

Rob Loveless

And in an episode, way back when, in the first year of the podcast, I did an episode called Gay & Anxious, and that was one source of anxiety that while it can be liberating, that there's not the traditional societal expectations of relationship, marriage, kid like a heteronormative couple, it could be a source of anxiety not knowing what these milestones are for queer relationships.

So, with that in mind and kind of lacking that blueprint you referenced, what are some common challenges LGBTQ+ couples face, and how do you help them navigate those struggles?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, I think there's a lot, right? Um, I think one of them is what we call like attachment wounds, meaning that relationships are not emotionally seen as a safe haven or secure base, but rather as, like, risky or scary or unsafe, or triggering is a big word that's thrown around a lot today.

And that is something that can really play out in a relationship dynamic. People tend to seek out others who might validate actually their shame or trauma responses, rather than challenge them.

Because in an odd way, for that to be challenged, it can be really destabilizing. So, in a way, that dynamic is comfortable and like cozy, but it's not necessarily moving people towards growth or healing.

It's like constantly repeating. It can feel almost compulsive just repeating and repeating this dynamic that confirms something that we don't necessarily like about ourselves psychologically, but it's all that we know.

And that dance can make handling communicating through a lot of topics like open relationships, sex, how to handle family, friends, it just makes it really challenging to navigate when there is this kind of emotional, deeper, like relational, dynamic that's getting in the way of each person just kind of like saying what they need, or knowing what they need and being straightforward with that.

Really, another kind of like side component here is that it can be difficult for couples to build true emotional intimacy, where you actually maintain a sense of individuality on your own, rather than finding yourself in this kind of a codependent and meshed dynamic.

So oftentimes, our work is just separating out each person's voice. You know, what do you want? What do you need? How do you feel about that? Is that doable? Do you need something in order to do that? 

And it's almost like striking a deal between them, and kind of finding this place in the relationship, rather than like you versus me.

Rob Loveless

And what you talked about with the attachment wound, that hits kind of close to home, because literally just this week, I was talking to my therapist about that.

So, Michelle, if you're listening, let's take notes for our next session from this. But going off of that you, you were also talking about that formation of emotional intimacy.

And I think, for myself anyway, when I was younger and dating, didn't date in middle school or high school.

So, in my 20s, when I came out, I feel like I was dating as a 20-year-old, but like, with a middle school level of emotional maturity.

So, I thought just from hanging out with somebody, you kind of formed that emotional intimacy. But it really does take work. It's not just spending just spending time together, but how you're spending that time together.

Like the questions you asked, you know, getting to really know that person on a deeper level. So, with that in mind, I think improving communication is something that every couple can benefit from, especially when looking to form this emotional intimacy.

So, what are some tools or tips you often share with LGBTQ+ partners to strengthen this connection?

Sam Fogarty

First off, as a therapist, I do, I know this sounds so nitpicky, but like separating out communication and connection.

I think the traditional way of kind of viewing things, especially in couples therapy, was this idea that, okay, if couples can just communicate better, then they'll connect.

And don't get me wrong, both are incredibly important, and I'm not saying one over the other, but communication is obviously incredibly helpful, whereas connection is something that's deeper.

It feels riskier, it feels more vulnerable. Communication almost feels what we like, what we need to kind of tackle first, oftentimes, just so we can actually talk in the space effectively, whereas connection is something that feels a little bit more special and unique to every couple.

And that's, again, one of my favorite parts of working with couples. Some tools and tips, specifically around communication, is as cliche as it sounds: I statements.

I am the annoying therapist that's like always jumping in, saying, like, don't say we, say I. And I feel statements, meaning I feel abandoned when you maybe leave me at the club because I'm worried that you might do XYZ.

I really need you to stay close to me and let me know when you leave. Right? That is very different than saying, I feel like you don't care about me when we go out. All you care about is going out and meeting other people, right?

So, really focusing on something more vulnerable and setting aside your ego. One of my own therapists and couples therapists actually constantly said, like, you need to check your ego at the door, because otherwise, like, what are we doing here?

This is not trying to prove yourself in any way. And with communication, it's essential to find a way to be calm and grounded and actually listen to your partner, rather than like immediately responding and reacting.

It can get so intense and quick that you're totally missing each other. And something around communication that kind of moves us into connection, and something that's really hard, I think, oftentimes for queer men, is expressing kindness, compassion, and love verbally.

I always kind of joke that oftentimes I feel like, and again, this is a sweeping generalization, but gay men often say like, oh, I want to fuck you, or I want to have sex with you, rather than saying I love you, or like, I want to connect with you.

I want to get to know you, or something that you said or do makes me want to approach you. So, trying to communicate something that's more tender, something that's a little bit more vulnerable, and kind of like soft and mushy.

As far as connection goes, that can look so many different ways. I actually encourage couples to take space, establish individuality, your own lives, hobbies, passions, so that you can realize, oh, there's this whole other person or the whole different world that I love.

That shows me something about the world that I don't see myself, right? And one of my favorite things to do in an intake with a couple is to ask them what made them fall in love.

What falling in love was like, what were those early stages of the relationship like? And something switches when you do that, because it reminds them that there is something special there that they do really care about. And there's a reason why they came in.

There's a reason why they're fighting for this, even if, right now, things don't feel so hot. And some of like the fun ways to just foster connections is to do new things together.

One of my favorite things that I recently did was I took a trapeze class on top of Pier 40 in Chelsea. It was so fun. I had never done it before. It felt risky.

I did it with my boyfriend, and it was just so silly and fun together. And it was something special that neither of us had ever done.

And it seems so trivial, but it's something that both of us always like reflect on. Just how fun it was. And just go on dates. Just go on dates.

I always ask couples, like, when was the last time that you went out for a date night? And then it's like, oh, we went out to dinner the other night because we were running to XYZ.

Like, that's not special, that's not a date, that's not romantic. Where can we find that again? Even if it feels effortful. It's going to feel effortful at first, but sometimes that's all you really need to reconnect.

To date each other again, to get out of your comfort zone of just assuming that this person is there and into you.

Building Healthier Queer Relationships (25:14)

Rob Loveless

And shifting gears to single people, what advice do you have for queer men who are re-entering the dating scene and looking to build healthier relationships?

Sam Fogarty

Great question. I think, well, first off, a little pet peeve of mine is with a question like this, I hear so many times people are like, oh, good luck. Or oh, it's, it's horrible out there. And I kind of like, don't like that.

If you go in with the attitude, you're gonna have a bad time. If you go in and I get it right, it's a deeply protective stance to say, to walk into something and predict that this is gonna go poorly.

That way, when it goes poorly, sometimes you don't feel let down or disappointed, but that also closes you off from being excited or actually connecting with someone.

And for single people, especially, it's really important to build a life of your own that is fulfilling. Your needs are mostly met.

You love freely, you love openly with friends and people in your life, because a relationship should add to your life, not complete it, or like fix something.

Just heal yourself, babe, and get clear in that time about your needs, your wants, your boundaries.

And that doesn't necessarily mean like a checklist of what you want this partner to look like or to feel like, but more so like, what's okay, what's not okay. Get clear about that.

And when you start dating, you gotta stick to those boundaries. You have to hold yourself to those boundaries. It's not the other person's job.

If you don't like the way that they treated you, you don't need to change them. You need to let go. And that can be really disheartening because it means a lot of quote unquote unsuccessful dates.

But you can learn so much from that experience, and actually grow so much from just the experience of dating. And I get it.

I have so many clients come in, and they're like, Oh, it's so frustrating. I'm exhausted by this. I've been dating for years. And I like to remind them, like, finding your partner should not be easy.

You should be picky. You're a unique person, and not everyone is going to be for you. Not everyone is going to be into you, just like you're not into everyone.

And that's okay. I think people assume, Oh, there's like this sea of LGBTQ+ people in the city. I should be able to find someone pretty quick.

I don't know, there's something that's again, I'm such a romantic that there's like that just that special person. And on dates, you'll feel that connection or spark and want to chase it.

You won't be talking yourself into why this person is right for you, or kind of putting them on a checklist.

Self-Compassion for Gay Men (28:17)

Rob Loveless

And I think it's been pretty evident through most of this conversation, but I do just want to ask the question directly. Why is self-compassion such a critical practice for gay men?

Sam Fogarty

Well, it's an essential practice for everyone. And I love that you use the word practice because it takes a lot of practice, and it is an action that is so effortful and ongoing. And you know, it is what heals shame.

Shame wants us to talk negatively to ourselves. It, shame kind of holds this idea, essentially, if we are hard on ourselves, then we will be motivated to change, which doesn't really work.

It constantly leaves us feeling like we aren't good enough, and even when we achieve things, we might feel proud for, like, literally an afternoon, and then the next day we just start all over again.

So self-compassion really means approaching oneself with grace, with kindness, with celebration, with gratitude, openness.

And it's not easy, especially when we're so used to treating ourselves with shame and shaming ourselves. 

But it's essential to start to build out that part of you that has the capacity to do that, and therapy can most definitely help with that, so that when things are disappointing, when things don't go your way, when things are hard, when life throws you a big challenge, you're able to be soft with yourself. Because we can't guarantee that other people will, but you can guarantee that you can.

And treating yourself with self-compassion is almost like the strength training to feel confident, to feel full of self-esteem, to treat yourself with self-regard.

And that's why it's kind of like the bread and butter of therapy, especially with queer men.

Rob Loveless

And I love your answer there about being soft with ourselves, because I think for many of us who identify as being a man, we were raised in a time where, you know, boys and men are supposed to be hard.

Boys, don't cry. You be tough. You don't deal with these things. But really, that's not, that's like a band-aid solution.

So, I think it's really important that we do work on allowing ourselves to be soft to ourselves in a nurturing, healing sense, because otherwise, if we just keep pushing ourselves to project this tough outward masculinity, we're going to reach a breaking point and crumble at some point.

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, absolutely. I actually have the word tough in all caps tattooed on me as kind of like a tongue-in-cheek reminder of like, yeah, we are tough as queer individuals.

We have faced so much, and we hold so much resilience and strength, but we can let go of that.

At a certain point, we've gotten ourselves to a place where it's actually safe to be soft with ourselves, and it's needed.

And that's why it could be so hard to change our ways, because this is something that has protected us deeply for so long.

So, when people are just like, oh, just change. It's so obvious that that isn't working; there's this deep emotional attachment to shame and being hard on ourselves and being tough because we had to for so long.

If we hadn't been, Oh God, we would have just crumbled. It would have been devastating. And that's why I just love that kind of reminder. It's like we are tough, but we don't have to be. We can be tender.

Practice Self-Compassion (31:45)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, what are some simple ways we can practice self-compassion on a daily basis, especially when shame or self-criticism creeps in?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, I have a very direct answer to this. Maybe it's the tough part of me coming out, and clients of mine know this well.

Step one is notice it. Right? Catch yourself when you're in that spiral, or when you're in that really like, anxious, shameful space. You hear the shoulds coming in. You're perseverating, you're ruminating, etc. 

We know that feeling. It feels awful. It feels panicky. Notice it. Observe it. And do something different. That's step two. People oftentimes stay in it, they take it seriously, they believe it.

They start to act in ways to try to numb it. That's where we see a lot of substance use and addictions of various sorts, or compulsive behaviors come in, right?

And you got to do something different, because those things are just perpetuating the cycle. And do something loving, do something tender, compassionate with yourself.

And that's again, where the practice comes in, and the ways to do that looks different for each person, because love looks different for each person.

That's really what we're talking about when we say self-compassion, acceptance, all this stuff. It's just love.

And I think oftentimes in the clinical world, we're scared of saying that, but our work is just in the field of love. And it's something that, again, looks different for everyone.

Overall, it's like being gentle, kind, compassionate with oneself. But one of my favorite things is to ask clients to take themselves on dates. Go out on your own. Right?

This is something that is probably best built on your own, independently, and build intimacy with the world around you, with your community, whatever that might be.

I mean, something that I personally really like to do for myself is movement. I think that's such a beautiful way of bringing joy into my body, into my heart, and my soul, whether that be putting on like my my playlist called Dancing Around the Apartment.

It's a lot of Fleetwood Mac. Or going to yoga or going for a run, whatever my body is calling for, and allowing that is such a beautiful way to show yourself kindness.

And I love to just go on walks, put away my phone, and just like, look at the world around me with a sense of awe. What do I see the sun doing through the trees?

What do I see these kids playing on the street? Or especially now, I love like the fire hydrants in Brooklyn are wide open.

Yes, maybe bad for climate change, okay, but the sheer joy on kids' faces, or even this morning, I saw a couple biking through and just smiling at each other because they just got drenched today, or they were stuck behind a truck.

And it just brought such a big smile to my face, and I think even that, as a way of just being compassionate with oneself, is just inducing joy in your own life and finding what makes you tick.

And doing that more and more, make it a part of your day consistently, so that when life does throw you something that is hard, you have like this well of joy and kindness and and fun in yourself to approach it with.

Rob Loveless

For anyone struggling to feel worthy or kind toward themselves, what would you want them to know right now?

Sam Fogarty

You are worthy. Not because of your job or your body or your friend circle or the party you went to or anything in particular. You are just simply worthy because you are human.

You don't need to change a thing. Humans, we inherently have worth. And even if you don't feel like it right now, there's a way to get there.

There always is, and it might take a little bit of help from a friend or a loved one, and maybe the first person who really shows up for you is your therapist, and that's okay. That's our job.

We want to do that work with you, and you will feel worthy one day, and it will start with like just the smallest moment, you'll feel an opening.

But my hope and my belief is that just the sheer relief of that, that felt sense of worthiness, it is addictive in the best way, and you will chase it, and it will be inspiring, and it will feel right, and you'll want to expand it and live your whole life in this sense of worthiness.

And God, it's just, it's the best feeling. And you can hear that I'm passionate about it because I didn't feel worthy for a very long time.

And I distinctly remember those first moments where I really had this felt sense of like everything's going to be okay and I'm okay, and I wasn't like trying to convince myself of that, I really, um, knew it. It's um, it's indescribable.

Episode Closing (37:30)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, the Nine of Cups in reverse.

Like we said, this card is indicating that we might be needing constant attention and validation and recognition around what we achieve in life, and that we might be out of alignment with what we're pursuing.

You know, we may be working toward things that meet the expectations of others, what they think we should be doing in an effort to get their attention and validation, instead of making sure that the actions we're taking are really in alignment with what we want for ourselves.

And I feel like sometimes we may do that because we fear that if we march to the beat of our own drum and work toward what we want for ourselves, if that's not in alignment with others, we might lose their respect or lose their affection or attention, and that we may be going with the status quo in the hopes of gaining acceptance from others.

And while that may be one way to do that, typically, that is kind of a superficial acceptance we receive from others.

So, it's really important that we implement the tactics Sam talked about today, to look within to really learn to love ourselves and the things that make us unique.

And when we start practicing that self-compassion for ourselves, it helps us align with what we truly want, that will bring us the greatest source of happiness.

And through moving forward in life, achieving what we know will bring us happiness, we'll be more likely to align ourselves with others who share those similar goals and beliefs, and that way, we'll foster genuine acceptance from those people instead of those we seek to get their approval and attention from through meeting their expectations that may not align with ourselves.

Connect with Sam (38:47)

Rob Loveless 

Well, Sam, thank you again so much for coming on today. This was a great conversation.

You know, we've talked about self-compassion in the past, and it's an easy concept to kind of get at the surface level, but it's another thing to, it goes beyond just understanding and actually putting into practice, which is where practice, which is where the hard work begins, but these tips and tools you provide say, I think they're really a great foundation for all the listeners out there to work towards being kinder to themselves and knowing they are worthy and allowing themselves to be soft.

So, thank you again for coming on today.

Sam Fogarty

No, thank you so much. And you know, I know I can be meandering, and these tips and tools are nuanced, and I really hope that this conversation sparks whatever listener out there to start this process, this journey, whether that be on their own or with a therapist, towards healing and being soft with yourself, because it really is just such a way to live.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. And as we're wrapping up here, can you tell listeners more where they can learn about you and myTherapyNYC?

Sam Fogarty

Yeah, absolutely. So, you can find us on Instagram @myTherapyNYC, alongside a lot of other socials. And if you're interested in learning anything about our practice, you can go to www.myTherapyNYC.com.

If you're interested in getting set up with a therapist, just fill out our get started form, and we will be, we will get right back to you very quickly and get you set up with a therapist who maybe looks like you, sounds like you, which is really such a great start.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. And all that information will be linked in the show notes. And if you've listened to the podcast religiously, you know that we've definitely referenced myTherapyNYC and some of the resources they put out there.

So definitely go check out the website. It's going to be very life-changing.

Sam Fogarty

Yeah. Thank you so much. We put a lot of work into it.

Rob Loveless

Absolutely, I can tell.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (40:38)

Rob Loveless

And you know the drill, if you have any questions or feedback, you can reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Five stars only.

I greatly appreciate it. For more information on this topic, our guest, episode resources, blog posts, links to merchandise, socials, all that fun stuff, you can visit the website ajadedgay.com.

You can connect with the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

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And remember: every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.