153. Pride, Pleasure, and the Path to Healing (with Court Vox)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Court Vox

When we feel safe in our bodies, when we feel comfort, when we feel that there's no imminent threat or danger, we can play.

Episode Introduction (0:29)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay because I recently decided to re-watch Sex and the City, which is one of my favorite shows.

I feel like I re-watch the entire series every couple of years. Usually I've re-watched it after a breakup, but this is, like, the first time that I'm re-watching it where I'm single and happy. So that's fun.

And I mean, obviously, the show hasn't aged well. I mean, for starters, Mr. Big is reading a Trump book in season one, which, I mean, just really solidifies that Big was never a good character and never the right guy for Carrie.

But what can you do? But despite all its flaws, I still enjoy watching it, and I don't know, it's just, you know, a comfort show.

So, it's been nice to just relax, decompress, and watch that show. In fact, the other night, I actually sat down and had a glass of champagne while watching Sex in the City, and I felt very cosmopolitan, so that was fun.

Somatic Sex & Intimacy (1:23)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, from Sex and the City to authenticity. Today, I am very excited to talk about the importance of really being open to pleasure and intimacy in our relationships.

In quite a few of our episodes, we've talked about the importance of emotional intimacy, vulnerability, being emotionally available, so that way we can welcome and kindness and be open to authentic relationships.

So today, I'm excited to kick off our Pride Month series with a conversation that focuses more on the physical sides of intimacy and vulnerability and how we can be more embodied in authentic connection. 

So, I have a very special guest joining us today to talk all about that. But before we do, you know the drill. Let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (2:05)

Rob Loveless

So today we drew the Two of Swords. Swords, as you remember, is tied to the element of air, which is symbolic of our thoughts, ideas, and words.

And you can think of phrases like the Sword of Truth and the pen is mightier than the sword. It's masculine energy, so it's very action-oriented.

And in numerology, two is representative of duality, partnership, and choice. And when we draw the Two of Swords, it's telling us that we might be in a place of indecision because we're afraid of making the wrong choice.

We're unclear of which path to take forward, because we want to choose a path that has the best outcome for us, so we can protect our well-being.

And as a result of this indecision, we're stuck where we're at. But we need to remember that nothing in life is guaranteed, and oftentimes, most decisions in life don't come with clear-cut answers.

You know, I recently heard that saying yes to one thing means saying no to something else.

So, with that in mind, we need to rely on our intuition and keep our logic and emotions in balance, so that way we can trust that we're making the right decision for ourselves.

You know, while we can't guarantee outcomes, if we're making decisions that are in alignment with our authentic selves, then we'll be setting ourselves up for long-term success, even if the decision we make doesn't immediately go our way in the short term.

Guest Introduction (3:17)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, I'm very excited to welcome our next guest. He is a leading somatic sex educator, surrogate partner, and founder of The Body Vox. Please welcome Court Vox.

Hi Court, how are you today?

Court Vox

Good afternoon. I'm doing well. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well, thanks. It's a sunny Saturday in Philly, so really can't complain.

Court Vox

Beautiful. Same here. I'm in Joshua Tree, and the weather is turning, so it's springtime, and the flowers are blooming and cactuses, it's pretty incredible.

Rob Loveless

I actually truthfully was not too familiar with Joshua Tree. I had heard of it, but not seen it myself.

And then this might be embarrassing, but I was watching the Kardashians, and they took a trip there, and it looks beautiful. So, I'm very jealous right now.

Court Vox

Yeah, it's very, it's just like two and a half hours out of LA, and it's pretty kind of remote.

There's, there's a lot of houses here, obviously, but, you know, still a lot of land, a lot of open, open land. So, it's pretty nice.

Rob Loveless

And it seems like it's a good place to just kind of reflect, meditate, heal, nurture yourself, which I think will tie nicely into our episode today.

I don't want to spoil too much just yet, 'cause we're going to talk all about kind of authentic intimacy, emotional intimacy, physical intimacy.

Before we get into that, though, for the listeners, can you just introduce yourself? Tell them a little bit about you, what you do for work, your pronouns, background, all that fun stuff?

Court Vox

Sure. So, my name is Court Vox. I'm a somatic sex and intimacy coach. What that means is I coach people through body-based exercises, experiential learning, touch, somatic means of the body.

So, unlike a traditional coach or therapist, I work in these modalities, as well as as talk as a way of processing things. My pronouns are he/him. I identify as a couple things.

I identify as queer, gay, and pansexual, probably in that order. I think queer for me is more of a political statement in terms of how I identify my life and my overall thinking.

I don't live a normal life by any means. I also live my life predominantly as a gay man, but I enjoy female bodies, and I enjoy really all kinds of bodies, and really kind of distills down to who it is.

Rob Loveless

And I like to ask all my guests today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay, and why?

Court Vox

I feel like I've become less jaded over the years, as I guess I become happier, more satisfied with myself, my body, my sexuality, my relationships, and I feel like I'm less jaded.

And it actually was something that I consciously, consciously chose to be less jaded.

Rob Loveless

I love that answer. I feel like I've heard from a lot of my guests recently, just given what's going on in the world, they've become more jaded.

But it's nice to know that there's, you know, other people who are feeling less jaded as time goes by. And I definitely think as we get older, we become more secure in ourselves.

And I like what you said, how you choose to be non-jaded, you know, you make the best of situations and try to find your peace in the world.

Court Vox

Yeah, for sure.

Rob Loveless

Well, I'm excited to talk all about somatic sex and intimacy. I know you kind of gave us a brief overview that somatic means of the body.

So, can you tell us a little bit more about the work you do as a somatic sex and intimacy coach and surrogate partner?

Court Vox

Sure. So, I just want to name that those are, those are two different things. Surrogacy is its own sort of modality, and I'll kind of get to that in a second.

But I, you know, I do a lot of different things. I offer retreats and workshops for GBTQ men.

Throughout the year, I usually do about two workshops that are shorter format and then two longer format retreats that are like six to seven days long.

I also work with clients in immersion, so for three days at a time, it's sort of like a mini retreat for someone who's kind of exploring their eroticism, their sexuality. I like to think about my work as a pleasure potential.

What is your pleasure potential, and what is possible for you in erotic realms? And sometimes people don't even know because they don't know what they don't know.

So, I like to offer a lot of different ways that people can play within the erotic realms and allow people to decide for themselves what their pathways are, what their connection to sacred sexuality is, or the divine, what their what their connection is to their body.

You know, people make a lot of choices and decisions after doing work with me. And you know, I think that this is Zeitgeist work. It's it's pivotal.

And, you know, people make big changes in their lives, whether it's career or it's relationship. But I think, you know, this is not a type of work that you come to kind of casually.

It's a very conscious choice. It's something that you have to be called to. I would say it would be the equivalent of doing like Ayahuasca.

It's not something that you kind of come to like I think I'm just going to do this thing for the weekend. It's something that you really need to be called to do and have purpose and intention around.

And those are the types of clients that I work with.

Rob Loveless

And you were talking about how it's something you have to be called to. So, can you tell us a little bit more about what called you to this career and what drew you specifically to working with gay and queer men?

Court Vox

Yeah, so I'll just name I also work with women. I work 50% with women, 50% with GBTQ men. I also work with gay couples, and I work with straight couples.

So, I work with a lot of different bodies and orientations, but those are the predominant groups that I work with.

You know, I think working with gay men is so rewarding, because there is this narrative that gay men have it all figured out when it comes to sex, and that we're all having the best sex of our lives, and we're at orgies and and that's true for a lot of people.

I think, you know, the majority of clients that are coming to work with me are looking for something that is a little more connected, something that's more connected to community, connected to source, whatever that means to you.

Some, some, some sort of like God figure, whether that's the land or your body or some sort of spirit source.

But I think you know, by and large, men are coming to seek something out inside themselves that they can't find and in everyday life.

I also what I know about men in general, and I'll say just everybody is that we don't have education around sexuality, and so we kind of jump into having sex when we're, you know, 14, 16, 19, 20 years old, whatever the age is.

And we, we don't necessarily grow from there, unless we're kind of conscious of pushing ourselves to explore new things and new bodies and new people, having reflections and inquiry about the types of encounters and relationships and sex that we're having, and a lot of people don't.

There's a lot of shame involved in that. There's religion standing in the way, there's there's so many obstacles standing in the way, and so, you know, a lot of my work is permissioning people, permissioning people to explore pleasure, to pursue pleasure, to actually be okay with pursuing pleasure.

I think there's a ton of shame in our culture just around pursuing it. So many of the gay men I work with are dealing with traumatic pasts that includes everything from physical trauma to sexual trauma, religious trauma, you know, coming out late in life because family wouldn't accept them or or just even the narrative that they wouldn't be accepted if they came out, whether that was true or not.

So, there's a lot to deal with, with with gay men. I think we're also unpacking other things that other people are dealing with too, but are are within our culture, which are, you know, ageism, racism, body dysmorphia, proximity to beauty, like these are themes that come up with gay men, either consciously or unconsciously.

And you know, when we are in community at retreats, for example, or workshops, you know, sometimes these things come up, and we are able to kind of see them for what they are, but I'm getting better at calling them out, because I think it's it's better to be conscious of how they're living in our bodies than to kind of be blind to the fact that they're there.

Somatic Sex vs. Talk Therapy (11:53)

Rob Loveless

And you hit upon some pretty big core themes around trauma that a lot of gay men encounter growing up, and then that they may still struggle with in adulthood.

So, with that in mind, how does somatic sex and intimacy coaching differ from traditional talk therapy and overcoming these challenges?

Court Vox

Yeah, so, you know, I love talk therapy. I have a talk therapist. I have a lot of clients that have been in talk therapy for a long time, and are very aware of who they are and very aware of their setbacks and their wins, and you know who they are as humans.

And there comes this point where a lot of them are, they're in this place of saying, like I've talked enough. I've been talking about this thing for 10, 15, 20 years, whatever that is.

And the difference between talk therapy and somatic therapy is that we're actually having discussions with our bodies.

We're having discussions not just through language, but through touch and through sound, through movement and breath.

These are ways that we communicate without words, and a lot of times, we have shut down these forms of communication and so reenacting them, allowing them to be present, allowing space for them to breathe, allowing space for them to be nurtured, learning what it is that you desire, what it is that you want, and that could be in sex, and also just life, and also learning how to voice what you want, learning how to voice boundaries, learning how to speak to power, learning how to stay present.

You know, anxiety, performance anxiety is such a huge issue that men come to work on, of I can't get out of my head, and I can't get hard because I'm in my head and I'm thinking about getting hard, and I'm in my head.

And it's this vicious cycle. And so, to be able to offer tools and toys in your toy box of how to play differently can be really valuable for people.

Common Blocks for Gay Men (14:02)

Rob Loveless

In some of your resources online, you talk about the body holding wisdom and memory. So, what are some of the most common blocks you see gay men carrying in their bodies?

Court Vox

You know, I'll just say, in general, men are quite rigid in their bodies. An example of that would be, you know, I often will do this exercise where I ask men to move and to music and just to find organic, natural movement and to conjure an animal.

So, you know, conjure a cheetah. And how would you move as a cheetah? How would you move as a monkey or a snail?

And a lot of times, when I'm looking at them, the differentiation between the cheetah and the snail, it actually looks visually the same.

And afterwards, when we process, and I'm asking them, you know, how was it to conjure these animals? What was the feeling in your body? And oftentimes, the feeling for them is drastically different.

I felt more sensual to move as the cheetah. I felt really slow as the snail, and pacing myself, I felt really powerful as the lion. But when I'm looking at it visually, it just looks the same.

And so, I think from a place of movement and even sound and breath, we're we're taught to be quiet, we're taught to hold still, to sit in our box, you know?

And so, to activate these parts of ourselves and our bodies can take effort, right? And these are sort of things that that are natural to us. We are, we are meant to move. We are meant to be in motion.

We are meant to breathe. We're meant to sing and vocalize. And our culture kind of shuts a lot of that down from a very early age, and especially in sex and intimacy, it's that quick and fast, or quick and quiet rule of, we do it quick and we do it fast, we get it over with.

We're going to be quiet so nobody hears and heaven forbid, our partner hears us. But these are also ways that we express turn on and we express satisfaction of moving into someone's touch.

You know, expressing satisfaction through sound. And you know, I would love to say that, like this is a common thing for people.

They just have it, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people don't. They're they're hiding behind silence. They're hiding behind stillness.

Reconnecting with Pleasure (16:35)

Rob Loveless

Earlier, you touched upon how a lot of people don't allow themselves to experience pleasure.

So how do body-based practices help gay men reconnect with pleasure, especially when shame or trauma is present?

Court Vox

So, I think it's important to acknowledge shame and acknowledge trauma, and acknowledge the narratives that we have in our bodies when they arise.

And my work is actually not about poking at trauma. It can be about questioning the narratives that we hold around sexuality in our bodies. Like, you know, for example, there's a lot of weight for a gay man to look a certain way.

And, you know, beauty is very prized, and muscle is very prized, and bigness is very prized. And so that question of, are you only allowed to feel pleasure if, if, if that's the type of body you have?

Is that, is that true? And you know the reality is, it's not true, but it's a story that we tell ourselves sometimes. And so, to question those narratives, but my work is about pursuing pleasure.

And we are always on a pathway of exploration and pursuit of pleasure, and on the way to the place, you know, stuff comes up, and we we we deal with it. We have discussions with it.

We talk to it when it's present, but otherwise, our job is to pursue pleasure. And for some people, that is an effort in itself, because we're taught to work. You know, we're taught to work.

And so, the idea of playing is foreign to a lot of adult humans, especially men, where so much of our value is placed on how much work we produce, how much money we we have, what what types of careers we produce, and we forget to involve play, that we are children at heart.

And eroticism and and sex is a form of adult play. And you know, they've noticed in studying animals in the wild that when animals feel safe, they play. And we are animals, like we have to remember that. You know, we're evolved animals, but we're still animals.

And so, when we feel safe in our bodies, when we feel comfort, when we feel that there's no imminent threat or danger, we can play. And you know, for a lot of us, that imminent danger, those threats, that hyper vigilance, it's it's not necessarily real.

It's living inside our bodies in the forms of memories, in the forms of past traumatic experiences, and how we held that trauma experience in our body. And you know, the the types of play that we pursue, the types of sex, the types of relationships, they can trigger those things.

And if we don't have the resources to talk to those parts of ourselves, it can just feel like I'm just going to push it down again, and I'm going to avoid, I'm going to avoid this activity, or I'm going to cover it up with drugs and alcohol. I'm not going to feel, I don't want to feel.

And a feeling body is a feeling body, right? When we start to feel things, and we start to feel immense amounts of pleasure, we also are open.

We're an open-source channel to feel grief and sadness and equal measure. And again, a feeling body is a feeling body. And so, if you want to be numb, you know, don't expect yourself to have exquisite, you know, mind-blowing orgasm and pleasure in your body the same way that you would if you were open to also feeling grief and sadness.

And you know, to be honest with you, those things all live within eroticism. I can't tell you how many times I've worked with men and women and people from all gender expressions and sexual orientations where there's so much there's so many different emotions at play.

People are feeling pleasure and they're feeling orgasm, they're feeling sadness and grief, and release. 

You know, sometimes when people really are just in their bodies, they're farting and burping and coming and, you know, crying and you know, when you're really open to what's present and not thwarting your own process, you know what's possible is a lot, and our idea of what sex looks like is not the same as what sex feels like.

Surrogate Partner Work (21:28)

Rob Loveless

In addition to somatic therapy, you're surrogate partner. Can you tell us a little bit more about what surrogate work entails and how it supports people in rebuilding trust, not only with others, but within themselves?

Court Vox

So surrogate partner therapy is a triadic model. I work specifically with a licensed psychotherapist to support the client in their learning and growth.

And so, the client will see me for experiential learning, and they'll see the therapist for processing the experience. And it's actually really important. And I love the triadic model.

It's something that I have on my retreats. It's something that we employ at Back to the Body, which is the retreat company I work for that works with women.

And there's something really potent about having an experience with someone who knows how to move with the energy in your body, and then to have someone else help you process that, because we are in that together, and that's not always available.

But with surrogacy, specifically, I am working with people that have, by and large, bigger T trauma. They've had been raped or molested, and there's a little bit deeper process and slowness that often needs to take place because in a lot of ways and a lot of times where I'm helping to rewire their nervous system. And it could be as simple as starting with like a soft caress on the arm.

And for someone who has been taken advantage of, that type of touch can equate to harm and trouble, and there's hyper vigilance around it.

And so, it's a little bit of like retraining their nervous system to feel into I'm not, I'm not, I'm not here to harm you. This is nurturing touch, this is loving, this is kind.

And we start there, and that's like a basic that we get from our parents, most of us, or a lot of us. And for those that were taken advantage of by adults or from parents, it's a huge it's a huge weight to carry, and when it's become an obstacle for someone to be in relationship with with others or to have sex with others.

Many of my surrogate clients have been latent virgins, so 30, 40, 50, 60, years old, 70, and, like, kind of you know, they're, they're like, looking at mortality. They're looking at mortality in the eye.

And this is not just surrogate clients, but you'd think, you know, again, gay men are having all kinds of sex, but I work with clients that have been celibate for three years, six years, 10 years, 30 years, and they finally come to a place where, like, enough is enough. I have to figure this out, and it's daunting to go into the world.

I mean, imagine you haven't been in it, and then you're, like, thrown into app culture, and expect it to find lovers who are going to meet you, and you have all this hurt around it, and it just feels daunting. It feels like, how can I expect others to show up for me this way?

And it is a big task to ask random people or even people that you care about to hold that.

Not everybody has that capacity, and so people will seek me out for that to help them move through those things that are keeping them from being in relationship with others, and specifically from being in an erotic and sexual relationship.

Reconnect with Desires (25:18)

Rob Loveless

And from a variety of factors, queer men may struggle with disconnection from their desires, especially if they grew up with shame.

So how do you help them explore what they truly want, sexually, emotionally, and sensually?

Court Vox

Yeah, so I think those are all connected. You know, we, we tend to like, put sensual and, you know, sexual and all these things in different buckets. And they are, they can be really different things.

But, you know, they're almost like portals into connection, portals into our own sexuality. I think one of the biggest things we can do for each other is to permission, permission each other, to express.

You know, so many people share share things with me that they don't share with other people, because there's not a ton of risk involved. You know, they might come to work with me for three days, and then they go back to a partner, or they go back to their life.

And there's risk involved in sharing those things with a partner. You've got a house, you've got kids, you've got pets, you've got family relations, and if you share something that feels so deeply connected to you, and there's shame around it, there is this fear of if I share this, I'm gonna get thrown out.

And the potential to lose all of this, the stuff that I've built with this human or with my family, the potential of losing that feels so, so big. But to be able to practice with somebody like me who is saying, 

I've heard it all, I've seen it all, you know, there's nothing that you can share with me that I haven't done, thought of, or want to do myself, you know? And that comes from my own mother saying that to me at a very early age of like you can share with me anything. I am always going to love you.

And I know that sounds like a simple thing, but even clients can work with me, and I say, you know, do you have a therapist? And they say, yes. And I say, do you speak to them about sex? No, my therapist is not comfortable talking about sex with me.

And that is a travesty like these are trained professionals that either A are feel too much risk in talking about sex because it feels like a liability, or whatever it is for insurance, or they have not done enough of their own internal process to hear somebody talk about wanting to be dominated or fisted, or to, you know, have some kind of three way orgy, or, you know, those therapists are still in a place of, like, questioning themselves, dealing with their own shame.

And again, for somebody to share things with me, I'm just like, I love that. That's a beautiful thing. How can we celebrate that? Let's celebrate that fantasy, that desire, and how can we meet that today? How can we find ways to meet that in your life and in this moment?

And there's something really like, just take a breath. You know, there's people that have, I've just been on calls with them, and I never meet them again, and they say, I need to share this kink with you.

And I say, what is it? I'm ready. And they tell me, and I'm just sort of like, for me, I'm like, okay, not a big deal. But for them, it just feels like this huge weight. And I say, you know what?

I think that you'll find a community around us. I think that your partner might be more open to this than you think.

Why don't you take a risk and share it? But sometimes, just hearing from somebody like me, who is a professional and who deals with this all the time?

It can be validating to say there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken, or your brokenness is absolutely welcome here and loved and celebrated and, um, you know, I wish that was more the case just in our world in general.

Of like all of you, is welcome here, and I think that's that's a big part of my work in general.

Eroticism & Intimacy (29:28)

Rob Loveless

With that in mind, what role does eroticism play in personal growth and spiritual development?

Court Vox

I think again, it's a very personal journey for people, but I think for me, sexuality and eroticism is a huge part of my personal development and growth.

When I have sex with partners, I get to look at like what what I'm moving towards and also what I'm moving away from. What are the obstacles for myself that are getting in the way of my own pleasure, and what are those narratives? And can I access more of my animal body?

Can I access more of of spirit, which oftentimes has nothing to do with me thinking and I, you know, to be able to remove and I have ADD pretty badly, and this is one area of my life where I actually am not thinking about 200 things in one second, and it feels like such a relief.

And you know, that's not the norm for so many people. So many people are like, I'm thinking about 200 things while I'm in this space, and it's keeping me from being present. But I think practicing presence is important, and it's not the same as mindfulness in this way, right?

Mindfulness is a really powerful tool for meditation, but when you're talking about partnered sex, or you're talking about eroticism with yourself. It's something a little bit different.

And I think that when you, when I, when I'm able to access these parts of myself that feel altogether me and other worldly, it's like a it feels some that's something larger than me.

I can't name what it is. It's not a Jesus figure or but it feels like a universal god. Yeah.

Rob Loveless

And we're talking a lot about intimacy, vulnerability. So, this next question is kind of a two-parter. What does intimacy mean to you beyond the physical?

And then how do you guide people toward cultivating deeper emotional or spiritual connection through intimacy?

Court Vox

So, intimacy beyond the physical, for me, is an energetic feeling. It's closeness. It's being able to sit in silence with someone and not feel like I have to fill the space.

Intimacy, for me, that's not physical, feels like I can call you, and I need to have support, whether that's I need you to listen to me or I need your physical body to support mine in presence. It comes in eye gazing. It comes in shared breath. It comes in shared experiences.

You know, there's so many different types of intimacy that we have, and you know, sometimes, you know, Esther Perel talks about this in her book, Mating in Captivity.

But sometimes, when there's too much intimacy, when there's too much closeness, it actually drives people away from each other sexually, because there's no mystery there.

And we as humans, we really desire security and novelty, and those are very different things. It's like polar opposites. It's like, how do you how do you continue to create both for yourself?

Because you know, for a lot of people, to dip into really deep eroticism, it involves being in love with your partner, caring about them, knowing that they love you and care about you.

And then for others, and even those people that have loving, caring, partnered sex, they desire a novelty, something that's new, something that's they haven't experienced before.

And for people that are in long-term relationships, that takes effort to create novelty, you know, and it takes effort to create security, too.

So, you know, none of these things are things that, just like happen naturally. They might in the beginning, and then, as we kind of like, slowly take off our presenter mode, it's like, oh, the cracks are starting to show.

Now we need to have some deeper conversations about how we create shared intimacy that's nutritive for us both, how we create autonomy for ourselves that allows us to still have mystery and novelty for one another.

And those are, you know, I feel like those are newer conversations and relationships that people are having. Again, I have, you know, kind of ways that I invite people into that, you know, emotional intimacy can be about sharing, right. Share with me your desires.

Let me share with you some of my desires, what I love, how I want to be touched, how I love to you know, how do you love to be touched? You know?

And again, those are some things that people don't know. They just don't know because they don't know. They don't know what's possible.

And so, to be guided into, you know, these are the different textures of touch that are available. These are the different qualities of touch, qualities of presence, awareness, that are available.

You know, just the exploration of that. There's a lot of emotional intimacy just being able to share yourself authentically. There's a lot of emotional intimacy that in that.

The the more spiritual aspect, I think that's so unique to everyone. I have a retreat coming up called Sacred, which is exploring sacred sexuality.

And you know, I have this personal vision of what people think sacred sexuality looks like, and I've seen retreats like this, and it kind of makes me roll my eyes.

But, you know, everybody's wearing white, and they're at a drum circle, and they're, you know, Kumbayaing, and that's their version of sacred sexuality.

But the reality is, is, I can't tell you what's sacred for you. I can't tell you what is divine, what's divinity for you. You have to explore that for yourself.

And you know, some people will find that, you know, on the floor in service to their dominant, and others will find that through expressive movement.

And others will find that through deep, physical, embodied connection with someone else. Someone else might find it through their their erotic private practice, you know, their masturbation practice.

Or you know, so it's kind of like offering all of these things as doorways in. And it could be all of them. Could be all of them for someone. Again, these are just pathways.

They're they're not the they're not the they're not the spiritual or emotional connection in and of themselves. They're pathways into discovering them.

Heal During Pride (36:38)

Rob Loveless

And Pride is often associated with celebration and visibility, but it also involves healing and reclaiming. So, how do you see your work intersecting with Pride, both as a concept and a practice?

Court Vox

You know, I've had my kind of thoughts and feelings around Pride for a long time, and I, you know, I think there's a for me, there's this feeling of like, do we need another circuit party?

Do we need another parade? And you know, my answer is, the more visible we are, the better. And so, yeah, we need reasons to celebrate.

We need reasons to celebrate our queerness, our identity, our existence, and the world needs to see it, because we're still a really marginalized community in the majority of the world.

And when we think about our effect and our impact on the world as Westerners, as Americans, even, is a huge impact, you know, and we're not a we're not an insular culture or society anymore.

We're a global, a global society. And those images, those videos, they're seen by by young people, you know, in the world, and especially right now, our own country, in the United States is, is we're struggling. 

We're going backwards. And so, yeah, this is a time to be really visible. And I would invite people to be aware of why we're celebrating Pride and what we're doing there. Are we going to get high and dance our faces off? Maybe.

But is it also about, you know, being visible, standing with each other in in a group, and saying, we actually have solidarity with one another.

We are a large group of humans, and we are proud, and we are colorful and beautiful, and we stand together.

I think those are really important themes for us in this current climate, not just in the United States, but you know, as people are seeing us in the the ways that we're still able to express freedom. It's it's really important.

Rob Loveless

What do you notice shifts when queer men come together in healing and embodied spaces, whether through pride or formalized workshops and courses?

Court Vox

You know, I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been writing about it, and I'm actually writing a piece right now for, I'm answering an interview for Ask Men, and it's about male loneliness, and the epidemic of male loneliness. And I think that, you know, it's not just about gathering, right?

Because we you could gather with a bunch of people and still feel really lonely in a crowded room, but I think when we come together as men, and I'm not just speaking about gay men, I'm talking about all men.

Like this, is a really like desire from men, I think, is to be able to embrace ourselves as men, to embrace our individual identities, regardless of what that is, whether we're our sexual expression or our gender expression, and to be able to come to the table with other men or to come into group format and be able to express authentically, to be able to share authentically, to open, to be met with emotional intelligence, to be able to cry and grieve as well as celebrate through joy and and party like again, to be able to bring all of ourselves is so important, and I, I think it's so much of what people are craving.

I'll name I crave it. I crave authentic, real community of brotherhood with straight men and gay men. And that isn't, that isn't necessarily about sex. That's about connection. It's about love.

It's about brotherhood, it's about support, about mentorship, about friendship, and I think we all could use a little more of that. And that's something that is definitely present and in my events and my workshops, and retreats is kind of stripping things down.

You know you're allowed, your permissioned to show up as yourself, to be vulnerable, to be scared, to be excited to be five again, to be 16 again.

You know to express your body, express your desires, express your kinks, and not be shut down for it. To get like a fuck yes from everybody there, and also to learn how to celebrate that instead of shutting it down.

Like those are two really big qualities of being able to be heard, but also to be that person that's able to be like, well, that's not my thing. But, like, love that you found that for yourself.

Finding compersion and joy for others and their expressions of pleasure and happiness. And I think there's elements of that at Pride, for sure, Pride. I think the spirit of Pride is that.

It's celebration of expression, celebration of our Pride, celebration of our identities, and I hope that we bring that spirit into our events.

And I think it's can be sometimes challenging to do when we're in such large, large format events.

So like encouraging people to find smaller community within larger communities too of who are those five people, those 10 people who are like solid or even just three, to find three solid men in your life is, is a win, you know, and caring less about being amongst, like a crowd of humans, but having those like deep connections, deep love affairs with our friends and and our lovers, and then to be able to be in a larger format, event or community, cultural space is, for me, it's much more rewarding.

Rob Loveless

In your opinion, what does Pride mean as it relates to living an intimate and embodied life?

Court Vox

I mean, just the word pride is like ownership. It's autonomy. It is being secure and confident. I am prideful. I have pride over my desires, my erotic expression, my body, it is mine, and I have pride over it.

I feel good about it. I'm confident in it. So those, those definitely correlate with each other. To feel proud of someone is like, it's the word is nachas. It's Yiddish. Nachas.

I have huge nachas for you, which is sort of like this. I have such joy and pride in what you've done and who you've become.

And it's something that you say as like a it's a way of saying, I just have such deep love and adoration for you as a human.

And I think that if we can turn that lens on ourselves and on our community, on our friends, to say, I have huge nachas, I have pride in who you are as a man, as who you are as a human, and I just love how you express. I love your connection to your body, and I love mine.

And it can be very different. Your expression can be very different than mine, but I see you and I celebrate you. I'm proud of you.

Gentle Intimacy (44:28)

Rob Loveless

And as we're getting towards the end of this episode, for anyone out there listening who's feeling disconnected from their body or afraid of intimacy, where's a gentle place to start?

Court Vox

A gentle place to start with intimacy is to start to track your own self. Like what keeps you from sharing authentically with the people in your life?

And if it's the people in your life, you might need to start to look elsewhere to find friends and community and lovers who do support you in that, or to speak to it, speak to it directly.

I'd like to be closer to you, but every time I share, I feel like you shut me down. What is that about? And to feel into like, what blocks you from saying those things you know.

Speaking again, speaking to power, speaking to things that might ruffle the norm or cause rupture keeps us from expressing authentically a lot of the time.

But I think you know having a relationship with your own body is important. This is Masturbation May. 

We have a we have a month for everything now, but Masturbation May is is great because it again, calls awareness to the relationship we have with our own pleasure, with our own bodies, feeling the the intimacy that you have with yourself, understanding the quality of your own hands.

And I'm not just talking about your hands on your genitals. I'm talking about your hands on your own body, being able to express through your own sound and voice, to be curious about different textures that are alive in your own fingertips and in your skin.

Like that, relationship is something that's always yours. And you know, it's very hard to take that away from you once you hone it.

Episode Closing (46:21)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, the Two of Swords. Again, this card is indicating that we might be stuck at a crossroads where we're not sure which decision to make, because we want to protect ourselves and make sure we're making the right choices that will lead us to success.

But just like anything in life, nothing is guaranteed, and especially when it comes to bigger life decisions, things aren't going to be completely clear as to what the right choice is to make.

So, in those situations, we really need to rely on our intuition and take the lessons from the suit of Swords that really encourages us to express our thoughts, ideas, and words clearly.

And like Court talked about in this episode, intimacy and vulnerability are so important in finding fulfilling relationships.

And to achieve that sense of vulnerability, it's really important that we're authentic to ourselves, and that's when those principles of communication really kick in.

We don't want to leave our thoughts, ideas, wants, fantasies, all those things just bottled up inside of us. 

When we're able to express that to our partner, it's ultimately going to bring us closer as one in those moments.

And like Court talked about, he's had clients come to him who express these fantasies, but they're afraid to tell their partner these things.

And he's even said, I think your partner is going to be more receptive to it than you might think. And that ties back to those life decisions that we have to make where we're not sure what the right decision is. 

But we need to trust our intuition that we are pursuing people that are in alignment of our wants and desires, and that we can really achieve a place of safety with them, so that we can be open with them and express some of these secrets that we might have.

And in those instances, even if it's something that they might not personally enjoy, that they're at least still open to it and are accepting of us wanting those things, because even just having those conversations or being open about these things creates a greater sense of intimacy and brings us closer together with our partners.

Connect with Court (48:04)

Rob Loveless

Well, Court, thank you so much for joining today. This has been a really informative episode, and I think it's really important to consider these things as we're entering Pride Month.

So, for all the listeners out there, can you tell them a little bit more about where they can learn about you, connect with The Body Vox, all those things?

Court Vox

Sure. You can find me at thebodyvox.com. I'm also The Body Vox on Instagram and Court Vox on Instagram. I run events throughout the year, and as well as I have an online community, and every month, we have a different collaborator take over the platform.

Cam Frazier, who's Australia's leading male sexologist is taking over this month, and that's some really great men, mostly queer, but can be straight talk about human sexuality and sexual wellness and just wellness in general.

So, it's a great resource for people that can't come to do work with me in person, but have curiosity around their body and sexuality. It's a great place to start.

Rob Loveless

And I'll be sure to include all that information in the show notes. So, when we're done here, make sure you definitely go and check out Court and The Body Vox.

Court Vox

Thanks so much.

Rob Loveless

And after you're done listening to this, definitely check out Court. He has some great resources on his website that I think can really benefit a lot of us in forming more authentic relationships.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (49:20)

Rob Loveless

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