152. Bratz to the Bone (with Chris Angelo)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Chris Angelo

Their motto is always like, express yourself, be creative, have good friendships, be yourself. But also, Bratz were considered the bad girls and the sluts of the doll world.

Episode Introduction (0:33)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a little bit of a jaded gay just because I went for a run with my running group, which it was great, beautiful weather.

Felt good running. Had a great time, except for the fact that things are in full bloom, so I am sniffly and sneezing up a storm.

So, pardon me if I don't sound like my normal self during this episode, just giving you that warning now.

Pop Culture Collecting (1:01)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, from pollen to pop culture today, I am very excited to have a special guest coming to talk to us about his experiences as a pop culture collector.

You know, in past episodes, we've talked about different aspects of pop culture, from queer media to pop music, and how all these different outlets have unique appeals to gay men.

So today, we're going to look a little bit deeper into how pop culture collecting, specifically Bratz, can bring queer people together and form a sense of community, both online and in person.

But before we do, you know the drill, tarot time.

Tarot (1:37)

Rob Loveless

So today we drew a Major Arcana card, and that is The Hanged Man. It's number 12 in the Major Arcana. 

And in numerology, we add double digits together, which equals three, and three is tied to creativity, collaboration, and community.

Also, The Empress is number three in the Major Arcana, which is all about receiving love and creativity, so these cards are somewhat connected.

And when we draw The Hanged Man, it's encouraging us to welcome the pauses in life.

You know, sometimes we're so focused on moving forward on a project or activity, but then something pops up and we have to wait to continue forward.

And while that may seem discouraging, there's usually lessons to learn from that.

So, this card is encouraging us to see the opportunity around us as we wait for the next step, instead of trying to push against forces that are keeping us from moving forward.

Guest Introduction (2:23)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, I am very excited to welcome our next guest. He is a barista and Bratz collector. Please welcome Chris Angelo. Hi, Chris. How are you today?

Chris Angelo

I'm good. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well, thanks. And, you know, trying this again. For all the listeners out there, this is the second time we're recording the intro, because some technical difficulties here.

I mean, it's been one of those weeks, so it makes sense. But glad to welcome you again, Chris, to the show.

Chris Angelo

Thank you again.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. Well, as we were talking about, we are going to be talking all things about Bratz, pop culture, its connection to LGBTQ+ culture, which I'm really excited to talk about.

Before we get into it, though, Chris, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you identify pronouns, background, how you got into Bratz, all that fun stuff?

Chris Angelo

So, let's see here. Um, my name is obviously Chris Angelo. I am a barista in Pittsburgh, and I don't know. I just, I have a boyfriend. We live together. We've been together for like two years.

I got him into what I've gotten into, you know, um, way I've gotten into Bratz is, I don't know they've always been in my life, since I was, like, a young, not young, like, they only came out in 2001, so not like forever ago.

But like my younger cousin, and when they were, like, at their like, height popularity, she always had them around me. And they were just, they were just cool-looking things.

And then, you know, and then then fads grow, and they die out, and they, you know, and then I got really into them, whenever I was, whenever I was actively using meth, weirdly enough, is when I was alone, coming down from it.

They have every episode, every movie, everything on YouTube. So, I, for some reason, that's what I put on to either to calm myself down, to come down from whatever.

And then I just got hooked into what the movies and the shows were. And then I started looking online for like, you know, other people that like collect, not like collected them because I hadn't started yet. 

Because if you saw what's behind me and to my left, it's a lot, um, but yeah, then I found people that were just like me and like, you know, then I had to learn, I had to learn about a bunch of stuff about the Bratz and about that kind of community, and it's a it's a whole different community than you would think.

Rob Loveless

Well, I can't wait to get into all that. Before we do, though, I like to ask all my guests today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay, and why?

Chris Angelo

Oh, I'm totally a jaded gay. I really am. I, well, I try, yeah, why? It's because men are awful. They really are. So that, I think that sentence alone makes me...

Rob Loveless

I can second that, and it's so fitting you say that now, because I just saw a meme on Instagram with Gabby Windy, who's from The Bachelorette and then The Traitors.

And I think it was in her most recent podcast episode, she's like, there's a lot of things, something along the lines of, there's a lot of things that are bothering me, that are getting under my skin, but right now it's men.

Chris Angelo

Yeah.

Rob Loveless

Never, never fails.

Chris Angelo

It will always be men. Even if you have a good one, it will always be men.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. Well, I think today we're going to try to avoid the talk of men and focus on the divas that are Bratz. 

Chris Angelo

Thank you. That's fine by me.

Rob Loveless

Well, I know you gave us a little bit of a background of how you got into Bratz, but can you tell us more about yourself and your relationship with pop culture in general?

Chris Angelo

I, I love it. It's like, it's, it's addicting to be honest. Like, I, I try and like, know a lot, and then there is so much that I will never know a lot of it.

And then there is some of it where I'm like, oh, I know all this. And then someone will tell me, like, what are you talking about?

Like, but like, even as like, like, growing up, it's like a, like, a middle schooler, I got really into it with all, like, the pop girls and all the pop music I will never forget, which I just did recently.

I would take, I would get any kind of magazine and just cut every little picture out. The picture could be like, pick full page, like miniature, and I would hang it on my wall.

Oh, I love doing it. It was, it was ridiculous how small I would do. But like, pop culture has always been there, and it just made me, like, feel better, even if it's like, it can't, it can't.

It can be, it can be dark sometimes, but like, nah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a good thing if you, if you stay on the right side of things.

Pop Culture’s Gay Appeal (6:56)

Rob Loveless

And why do you think pop culture resonates so deeply with gay men?

Chris Angelo

I think it's because, I think it's because a lot of pop culture has to do around like, women and not, women, I say, but not because we're into women because, like, we, I don't know for myself, you always feel a little bit closer to women if you're a gay person, like a gay man you know, usually you know, and a lot of them you know, stick up for what we believe in and our rights and stuff like that.

So, pop culture in like that, sense, I feel like they us gays will resonate with and then even like now shows have so much well, they try to put so much gay into it that, like, it's better for us now and not like, you know, where they shy away from it or try and hide it.

Rob Loveless

What does it mean to be a pop culture collector?

Chris Angelo

It means you spend a lot of money. But no, no. I mean, that is part of it, unfortunately, but it's honestly, it gives me an escape that, like, I wasn't allowed to do, or like, you know, if, like, I'll be at work and I'll come home and go up to the floor that my boyfriend and I have made for, like, what we collect and all this kind of stuff.

And it just felt like a diff, it feels like a whole different world and house, even though we're in the same house. You know what I mean?

But like, I don't know it's, it's a lot of fun. It's very time-consuming. But it's not time-consuming in a bad way. It's time-consuming where like, that's, that's literally, like, I once I've met a bunch of awesome people in the doll community, which, as most communities are, are very toxic.

But you weed through the toxicity in each community, and you find the right spot where you should be. But, yeah, you find, you find a lot of things to take up your time. I've learned how to customize dolls, not fully because I don't have the artistics.

There's a lot of artistic skills that people can do, like people will take off all the hair, reroute the entire thing, I will break it. I don't have the patience for that. I have tried. It does not work. I make my boyfriend do the tiny little things.

So that's what I mean. I've integrated him into what I've liked. And he has never, he's never once, like, also complained about it. I think he low-key enjoys it just as much as I do.

Bratz (9:29)

Rob Loveless

That's awesome. And with that in mind, can you tell us about Bratz?

Chris Angelo

Bratz. Okay, so they came out in 2001, and they were, like, the first, like, competition for Mattel and Barbie, you know, because they were their their motto is always like, express yourself, be creative, have good friendships, you know, be yourself.

And that that's where I think they separated from Barbie. But also, Bratz were considered the bad girls and the sluts of the doll world because of what they looked like and how short their outfits were compared to what Barbie looked like.

I think, I think Mattel sued MGA, which is the company that does brats at because of how strong the competition was. I might have that fact wrong, but I know there was definitely suing happening.

Rob Loveless

I remember when they came out, because my sisters had the Bratz dolls around the time that they were little girls, and I know there was definitely some controversy around how the Bratz dolls were perceived, with their big lips and the eye makeup and, like you said, the shorter outfits and more trendy hair.

Chris Angelo

Yeah, it was, it the Bratz were, I don't want to call them sluts, because they're definitely not, but that's what I've seen that word thrown around from like, people, you know, and that from mothers, mothers mostly, but like, it's they're not.

That's not how it is at all. They might, they're just a different doll. Not every doll is for every person.

Rob Loveless

And you told us a little bit about when you first got interested in Bratz, but can you tell us more of tell us more about when you started collecting the dolls and then what inspired you to start your Bratz Instagram account?

Chris Angelo

Whenever I started collecting them, I will never forget I bought this like lot on Facebook marketplace. It was some dad trying to get rid of his daughter's stuff.

I I had no idea what I was buying, like, because I had, like, just I was bored on my couch, and I was like, let's buy this. And I met him at the Sunoco across my house. Took this big bin in my house. I dumped, I think I, what did I do with all of it?

I think I gave away a lot of it to, like, my friends and stuff, and then I donated some of it, because I was like, I was like, I don't know what any of this is. And I kept some of it and just kept it.

And then once I really started, then you learn there's a whole website. It's called LookinBratz.com, and I learned so much from that website. I there was this one guy I met, and he was like, go on this website. 

You will learn so much, like, what you have, what you you know, what you're looking for, all this stuff. And then that's where it started. And now it's, it's I learned something new every single day, and I get a package like, it's a lot.

There's because I have, I have an app called Macari that I could, that I'd buy them on. And then there's a live auction app that I just recently started having an addiction to. That one's the worst, because I just got I was drinking last weekend in my house, and I was on it, and I bought something.

I don't remember buying it. I came today, and I was like, I don't remember buying this, but cool. Oh yeah, my, I started my Bratz account when I started working. It was after the pandemic, because I didn't go back to the coffee shop until, I don't remember, like, right after the pandemic, like, once everyone started, like, going back to work and stuff.

And then they were like, we need some, we want some, like, new ideas for at the owners at the time where, like, we want some new ideas to, like, you know, bring in.

And I was like, well, I have this Bratz doll that can, like, you know, dress it up to the season, or, like, will make it look like I did I started. It started out very slow and very, very just. It was just me, like I had, no, I just dressed up a Bratz doll for the season, or the or the or just to look like a barista at first, and then then they got a little bit more creative as I kept kept going, and the people were liking it.

And then once I met my current boyfriend, is when they really started being more elaborate. And ever since I met him, I just now I can't stop.

And it's funny, because everyone at work goes, oh, my God, you are so talented. You build all these things. I don't build anything. He builds them all. I tell them and I and I am proud of this, and I tell him, I pay for everything.

He lets me tell him what I want, and he does it. It's like I said, if he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't do it. So, like and like I said, I think he also enjoys it so and he's a, he's a, he's a very creative and talented person where, like, you can tell him one thing, and like you don't have to tell him again.

Me, it would take me forever to build these things that we have built. Like last year for Pride season, I made him, it was is ridiculous. I made him build me an umbrella. Not made him.

I asked him to build me an umbrella. I bought two different umbrellas and had him take it apart. Had both because I wanted a rainbow umbrella with a hook like, handle, yeah, I'm a little bit crazy.

But you know what? That's what, sometimes it being crazy works with some things.

Rob Loveless

Well, with all that in mind, what's your favorite Bratz doll and why does it hold a special place in your collection?

Chris Angelo

Okay, so I was just recently thinking about this. And there is one. It's, it came out in like 2010, it's a boy. And when it came out, like originally, everyone was like, Chris, this doll looks like you.

And like, I have a picture of it. When I took the picture in 2010, still on my Facebook, I think, and I just recently realized that I have him.

And then I was like, wait a minute, that's the one that I use to like that someone made to make the customize me that I have now.

So, weirdly enough, the doll that everyone thought looked like me I used and didn't put it together until, like, just recently.

Rob Loveless

That's awesome. And what does a day in the life of a Bratz collector look like?

Chris Angelo

Okay, so I go to, let's see my day is, once I come home from work, it's like, usually around three o'clock, um, depends on how tired I am. So, let's say I'm not tired. I'll come up here, and depending on what I have to like, what I'm doing.

Like, if it's something for a display at work, I have a couple, like, personal projects that I'm working on, I'll either, like, do some clothing parts of it, or, like, I've recently learned how to flock hair, which is, like, on the sides of like a shave, like, like a boy's haircut, like the fibers on the side. I've recently gotten really good at doing that, because I've also done beards and stuff too.

So, like, it depends on what you have, like, recently, since I just like, finished the room that we're in, I would take, like, a certain amount of time and just put some up on the wall whenever I would get shelves, which is another thing I think I've I've never spent or bought as many clear acrylic shelves as I've done in the in the past, like few months, but Mac bids is my friend for that.

Yeah, it's you, and depending on how like, how like, because if I repainted dolls, or if I like, re-rooted dolls, or stuff like that, that's what I think I would come home and do.

But now, since I now, one of my plans is, since all of mine are no longer in bins, they were just in bins because I had no room to put them all, I want to take every like collection down and wash and take and like clean them all.

But then I'm also working on making a little mini photo studio in this room them in. And then I'm also working on something else.

Bratz & Queer Culture (17:22)

Rob Loveless

Well, shifting gears a little bit in what ways do you think the Bratz brand has impacted queer culture?

Chris Angelo

Oh, it's they, they, um, I think they're one of the very, I mean, they all like, I think all brands do something like Pride, whether if it's like, big or not.

But I will say the Bratz definitely are in it, because they have two characters that are lesbians, and they came out with, I think it was a few years ago. They came out with a hope, but not home, it was just two. It was like a double Pride set with Jimmy Paul.

And it was, it was the the two, they Nevra and Roxxi were their names, and they came in, like, Rainbow outfits with, like, lesbians. It's really awesome.

And I'm actually looking at the picture of it on the wall there, but like, it was, I had it in the box behind me, but I recently just took it, took it out.

But, yeah, no, they, they, they'll come out with, like, videos for them around, like, they'll do stuff around Pride and everything like that.

I think they've even had, like, Pride T-shirts, but, yeah, I've not ever seen a brand do something like that before with the, I want them to do a Pride boys, but they haven't yet.

Rob Loveless

Well, maybe this year, maybe 2025.

Chris Angelo

I wish.

Rob Loveless

And how has Bratz allowed you to find your community within the LGBTQ+ community and also build an online community?

Chris Angelo

It's, it's because, to be honest, a lot of Bratz collectors are either gay men or girls, so more or then that, you know, and you have trans people and everything like that.

So, like, but a lot of the people that collect them are people that weren't allowed to in, like, a younger age. But then you have like, then you also have like, the girls who were allowed to have them, but they still have them, or they like, refound their old collections.

But you find a lot of, I find a lot of people that, like, are like me, and either didn't do them at all, like, didn't just were around them, but like, you know, you would have been like, you family would have like, why do you have a doll?

Or like, now, it's just like, now it doesn't matter if I do or not what I don't. I don't feel the need to tell people, you know what I mean, like, I don't like people not close to me.

I don't feel I don't just like outward say it. You know what? I mean? I don't go walking around like I collect Bratz dolls.

But no, it's you definitely find a lot of people in the doll community that you can connect with and be friends with.

And granted, they might live across the country in a different like they can live in. I've met people in the UK, not in person, but like, I've talked to so many different people, and it's you meet a I love it.

Rob Loveless

And you're talking about how some of these collectors are overseas or in other parts of the country. I was curious what Bratz-related events are there, especially as it ties to the LGBTQ+ community?

Chris Angelo

To be honest, I don't know of many, I know they will have like, and it's usually in LA, it's usually in LA, but like they though, if they're, if they work with a makeup brand, they'll have, like, one of those, like event parties for that launch or something.

I think they had a party at their, like, 21, 21 birthday, you know, as like a 21st birthday party, like, it's just, it's from what I've seen and from what I know, I think those are the only type of events they have.

Brat Summer (20:47)

Rob Loveless

And we also experienced Brat Summer last year. So, how did this intersect with Bratz?

Chris Angelo

Such a fun summer. It's, it's brat forever. But I, I think people like, I think, like Bratz collectors and brat lovers like, thought of it as, like, integrated.

But weirdly enough, it was never like by Charli XCX or Bratz. They never like, they never did anything. It was never like, integrate.

It should have been, but I think, I think some people just kind of combined it and, like, made it one thing, but it's definitely two different things.

It was, yeah, which I would like, I said it was, I'm shocked that it was never more of a thing because it was Brat and Bratz. But...

Rob Loveless

Yeah, it seems like a missed opportunity.

Chris Angelo

Right? It was, it was, it was a bit, it was a miss on.

Bratz and Community (21:39)

Rob Loveless

Well, again, going back to Bratz, as it relates to the LGBTQ+ community, what have you learned about yourself as a Bratz collector and immersing yourself in this community?

Chris Angelo

I have learned to, um, deal with money better. I will, at least I'm trying to, I'm trying to, you know, it's adult money, so, like, I don't want to go nuts and but because people also like price gouge everything for that.

But I've also learned with myself is there is no rush for anything. Like, I enjoy what I'm doing. Like, it's I I'm not doing it to like, get famous, or like, do my Instagram to get famous or whatever.

Like, you know, it's if, if, like, stuff goes viral, which, you know, at what would but like, I cool, but like me collecting all of this stuff, it's, it's for me, and I enjoy it.

And people that come up here, which hasn't been many yet, but if you want, when you see it, it's legitimately, I wanted it to be, like in a whole experience up here.

So, like, I've learned how, yeah, there's just you learn, and you also learn, like, meeting people from all over the world.

You get to see how people, like collect and what what they do with theirs, and how, how people display theirs, and let you know you learn things from different people, like I've learned how to do certain things on my dolls that I never knew how to do.

So, it's, it's a I've learned a lot, a lot to learn, and I still am.

Rob Loveless

And beyond Bratz, what positive impacts can being a pop culture collector have on gay men?

Chris Angelo

I think, I honestly think, like collecting some sort of pop culture gets you into like, a little community, like any like, like, if you collect Funko Pops, or if you collect Marvel things, or like any like, Wizard of Oz stuff, there will always be people to talk about these things with, no matter if it's just online or if it's a convention, or like, some sort of, like toy show, which I go to, toy shows, if you go toy shows are great, because I go to them.

They're like, every few months or something like that. You, there are so many people you could meet, so many different people, even the people selling the stuff you can like talk to.

Not all are nice, because I've met some of them. But like you know, there's, there are plenty of people that you can meet if you want to immerse yourself into a collecting world.

Rob Loveless

And what advice do you have for anyone who may be interested in starting to become a pop culture collector, especially as it relates to finding their community?

Chris Angelo

Watch out for scammers. They're everywhere. I think, I think just be careful. Like, especially if you're starting out like, if you don't like, find like, one or two people that will help you, like, in the beginning, then just, just, just be careful.

Uh, because I, I've seen plenty of people get scammed out of like, money, lots of like, they'll send people like, they'll trade online, and they'll send something.

And oh no, this person's gone and like, and also, if you meet up with real people in real life, you never know.

Like most of the people that I've met, I definitely, for sure, know that they aren't like fake people, but you never know what's out there, because you know, and if you're buying stuff on Facebook marketplace, be careful.

Some girl told me that she drove an hour away into the middle of nowhere for a few dolls. And I was like, she was fine, but she's like, I have no cell service.

She had no it was you never know you like I said, these Facebook marketplace people, they they'll sell them from anywhere. So just always be careful. But then, once you're in it, it's so much fun.

You have so much fun. You will spend a lot of money, but that's inevitable. So, it's, it's not a bad thing. It's so much, it's so much fun. And I would never, I don't regret any of it.

Episode Closing (25:56)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, The Hanged Man again, being number 12, we add double digits together, which equals three.

And in numerology, three is all about creativity, collaboration, and community, which I think we can really see in this episode.

You know, not everyone relates to the gay gym culture or the party scene or the hookup scene, so sometimes we have to be creative to find those areas within the gay community that align with our authentic identity.

And like Chris talked about, it's easy to want to spend all the money and buy all the dolls, but sometimes it's good to just pause and be in the moment.

Like Chris talked about, he has his room dedicated to all things Bratz, so when he's not buying a new doll or doing a project on one, he can go to that room and kind of just enjoy the solitude in that space he created.

And through that, he's also fostered an online community with people both in the country and overseas, who also collect Bratz dolls.

And for ourselves, whether it's Bratz or some other aspect of pop culture, there are so many venues to connecting with others in the LGBTQ+ community outside of going to gay bars or the gym.

Sometimes it can feel tough, but I can guarantee, whatever your interests are, you're not the only one interested in that.

It might take a little longer, but it's really worth putting in the work to finding those other like-minded individuals to form your own community within the community.

So maybe right now, you're feeling stuck in this pause where you're having a hard time finding those like-minded people.

Instead of trying to push forward by trying to fit some mold that feels inauthentic to yourself, get a little creative and see if you can find other ways to create collaboration and community.

Connect with Chris (27:23)

Rob Loveless

Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming on today. This has been a fun episode.

As we're closing out, can you tell other listeners where they can learn more about you and connect with you both personally and your Bratz collection?

Chris Angelo

Yes. So, my Bratz Instagram is TheBratzBarista, and then my personal one is _ChrisAngelo_.

Rob Loveless

And once you're done listening to this, definitely check out Chris's page. It's so much fun. You're gonna love it. 

Connect with A Jaded Gay (27:47)

Rob Loveless

And you know the drill for the podcast. If you have any questions or feedback, you can reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

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Outtake (29:11)

Chris Angelo

But a lot of the people that collect them are people that weren't allowed to in, like, a younger age or like. Sorry, I saw a bug on the wall. Oops.