150. Lights, Camera, Action: The Importance of Trans Voices in Media (with AJ Mattioli)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

AJ Mattioli

There are kids who are going to sneak to their rooms and watch these queer films without their parents knowing, and it's going to be the only thing that they have that is as close as they can be to the community.

Episode Introduction (0:33)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay.

I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay, because this past weekend was my first weekend in probably over a month that I had nothing really to do and actually had time to just relax, do a little podcasting work, do some cleaning, but just really kind of like lay around the house, get caught up on some things.

I've been just going non-stop for a while now, which I know seems to be a common theme.

I think I've talked about this before, but yes, I had this weekend to relax, and it was much needed, and I can definitely feel the difference.

Queer Filmmaking (1:10)

Rob Loveless

But while I am feeling relaxed, one thing we should not be relaxed on is authentic queer representation in media.

Yes, we've talked about this in past episodes, from Netflix canceling its queer shows to straight actors in gay roles, and especially given the circumstances we're living in now, it's really important that we're promoting authentic queer representation.

And so today, I am very excited to have a special guest on who is going to tell us all about their experiences as a queer filmmaker.

But before we get into that, you know the drill, let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (1:46)

Rob Loveless

So today we drew a Major Arcana card, and that is The Magician. And I feel like we've been drawing a lot of Major Arcana cards recently.

Anyway, it's the second card in the Major Arcana, following The Fool, but its value is one, since The Fool is zero. And in numerology, one is tied to the individual and the start of a new journey or cycle.

This card is representative of all the Minor Arcana suits, but The Magician is holding a wand above his head, which is masculine energy that's very action-oriented.

There's also an infinity sign above his head, signaling that our energy is constantly flowing through us. This magician is viewed as a creator that can manifest whatever he dreams of.

And so, this card serves as a reminder that we have all the elements at our fingertips needed to create what we desire.

And so, we should channel our inspired action from within to bring our passions to life.

Guest Introduction (2:34)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, I am very excited to welcome our next guest. He is a trans producer, director, and owner of Mattioli Productions. Please welcome AJ, Mattioli. Hi, AJ. How are you today?

AJ Mattioli

I'm well. Thank you so much. Excited to be on your podcast.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. Very excited to have you on. In a lot of past episodes, we've talked about pop culture and queer representation.

So, I'm excited to go a little bit further, talking to somebody who actually owns their own production and distribution company and is dedicated to getting queer representation, especially trans representation, out front to everyone in our community.

Before we get into that, though, I was wondering if you could introduce yourself to our listeners, tell them a little bit about yourself, how you identify, pronouns, background, all that fun stuff.

AJ Mattioli

Yeah, so I'm AJ Mattioli. I am from New York, born and raised. I live in Bucha, Brooklyn right now, which I love. It's very artsy and very queer.

I very much identify as queer. I am a trans man, and I'm polyamorous, which I always tell tell people, mostly because there's not enough of a representation for polyamory people out there.

So, I think being a person that is in that lifestyle, I should talk about it more, and I should let people know that that is an option of a way to live and live happily.

I've been making films since, well, I've been making films since 2010. I've been producing film since 2012, so it's been a while.

The years are adding up at this point, and I started distributing films in 2020 during COVID, mostly out of pure boredom and needing something to do. And I had a film out at that time.

It was making no money, even though there was a slew of celebrities in it, and it just was not making money through a distribution company. And I said, I can do this, and I can do it better.

So, I started distributing my own films, and then I started distributing other people's films, and it's been relatively successful, which is great, and artists have actually seen some money come in, and yeah, so that's kind of what I do.

I only produce queer films when it's under the Mattioli Productions name, which is my company, Mattioli Productions. I'll obviously produce for other films; people are hiring me.

But when it's Mattioli Productions, it's always queer. Um, I just find as important that we tell our own stories. It's more authentic that way.

You know, you'll see, you know, films with gay men in it, and they're just, you know, stereotypes. Or you'll see lesbians, and they're always, they're always two femme presenting lesbians.

You know, there's never a bull dyke in, you know, mainstream media. So that's kind of where I kind of came in and started showing real representation and just finding that that's important, yeah.

So yeah, it's a little bit about me.

Rob Loveless

And today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay, and why?

AJ Mattioli

Oh, I'm very jaded. I think growing up in New York, it's hard to not be jaded period, let alone when you're queer, it's extremely hard not to be jaded. You know, we start the bars are our home as queers.

It just a reality. That is where most of us, you know, meet friends, and it's just our it's, it's just our safe space, our bars.

And when you grow up, you know, with using fake IDs from the time of, you know, 15 years old, and going into bars and hanging out with queers, and you know, hearing their stories you and seeing, you know, their their attitudes in both loving and terrible ways, you tend to get a little jaded.

So, I would definitely say I am jaded.

Rob Loveless

I think that's fair, too. It seems like a lot of the guests I've had on recently seem to be jaded. So, I think that is kind of the consensus right now.

AJ Mattioli

Yeah, I think also, like, right now, you know, just with everything that's going on in the world, I was gonna say in the United States, but right now it's really in the world as a trans person who's pansexual, it is terrible, and it's hard not to be jaded.

So, I think that right now, those few chosen non-jaded people are going to be thrown into the jaded chess pool sooner than later. So yeah, yeah.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. And I think going off of that too, that's why queer representation and authentic queer representation is needed now more than ever.

So, I know that up top, you told us a little bit about how you've been creating films since I think 2010, so that's 15 years now, which is crazy to think. 2010 doesn't seem that long ago. But yeah,

AJ Mattioli

I feel like I was in high school 20 you know, I feel like I was in high school two years ago, not 25 years ago. So, yeah.

Rob Loveless

I feel like, after a certain point, we just, like, stop counting the years as we age. It's like, well, we're just gonna stay, you know, 28 or 32 forever.

Rob Loveless

Exactly, exactly.

Rob Loveless

Well, like I said, you've been making films since 2010, so can you tell us a little bit more about your career as a filmmaker?

AJ Mattioli

So, I started off in theater, and I was directing this off, off, off, off Broadway show, and I went out to dinner with the actresses, the actress and her spouse at the time, and he was making a movie, and he just was like, and I was like, oh, I really want to get to movies.

You know, that's what I'm going to school for. And he said, oh, come down, be a PA. You know, if you have time to volunteer, come be a PA. And I'm like, okay, let's do that. And I went down to set, and I brought my tools. I'm a carpenter. I've been doing carpentry work since I was a kid with my dad. So, I brought my tools because I felt like I should bring something.

And I get onto set, and the director is screaming at somebody and fires them right in front of me, and looks at me and goes, Hey, you. Hey kid, do you know how to build things? And I said, Yeah, I know how to build things. Like, okay, you're the new set carpenter.

So, I never had a PA, which was amazing. So, I went by into set carpentry, and then through that, I stayed within the art department. So, I do a lot of I still do a lot of production design. It's my main bread and butter is production design.

So, I started doing production design, and I was working for this absolutely terrible Republican man who's MAGA, and I was young, so I didn't know better, and I was working with him, and he wanted to make a lesbian movie. And at that point, I was identifying as a lesbian, and he didn't know any other lesbian.

So, he said, hey, you want to direct this movie? And I said, Sure, fuck yeah, I do. So, I directed a movie called An Affirmative Act. And while I was on that set, my girlfriend at the time was in the movie, very amazing actress, Alyssa Goldstein. She's amazing, an amazing actress.

And I just saw the way he would speak to her. And I always noticed how he spoke to actors overall. But it's different when it's someone and then you know someone that you don't really know, versus someone that you are have been with for a decade, you know.

So, he was talking hard in a really terrible way. I just said, you know, after this movie, I can do exactly what I got into distribution as well, like I can do this and I can do this better. So, I decided to start producing films. And I was 2012 when I finally made that jump into producing. I started off with a short film called Identity Crisis, which was really a really fun little comedy that I also directed the play version of.

And then after that, I just got to love producing. And just said, well, this is what I want to do. And it's been, you know, an uphill battle since then.

You know, unless you are backed by a major studio, it is very hard to make films, but I persevere, and I push through, and I continue to make them, and I am happy to say that I've made, I want to say five features and over 15 shorts produced by, you know, by Mattioli Productions.

So, it's been great. So that's kind of how I got my start. And and again, I still do production design in order to, you know, make, make rent.

The Evolution of Queer Representation in Film (10:57)

Rob Loveless

And what were your experiences seeing queer representation, especially trans representation in the media growing up?

AJ Mattioli

Oh, I mean, trans representation was relatively non-existent, right? I mean, we had, you know, Boys Don't Cry, which, you know, I haven't seen in a very long time, which, God bless, you know, Hillary Swank was amazing in it. It was an amazing film.

But the reality is, like, I don't think, and I could be incorrect, but I remember leaving the movie and being like, so she's a lesbian? Because they never actually say the word transgender in the movie. Again, I can be wrong. It's been a while, but I'm I've always felt like, if they even mentioned it, it was a very small mention. It was not, you know, it was like, if you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't.

And when it came out, I, you know, I didn't get it, you know, and which was confusing for me, you know, because I was like, that's how I feel, you know, I feel the same way that, you know, Hillary Swank's character felt in a movie. But I didn't have a word for it yet.

You know, I think we forget that the T was added relatively late to LGBT, which is now obviously LGBTQIA+, but the T was added a lot later, so I wasn't really aware of that. You know of what it meant to be trans, which is just, you know, I guess a lot how a lot of us felt, you know, I, although I grew up in New York, I grew up in suburbia New York, so I wasn't around a lot of queer people until I was old enough to kind of move out and get a little get closer to queer neighborhoods.

So, and then, you know, you had The Celluloid Closet, which was, you know, a documentary which, you know, is a little aged now. The language is a little aged now, but I highly suggest people watching it. It really is quite a great documentary about, uh, queers in media, um.

And then, you know, outside of that, you know, trans movies, trans representation. You had Dog Day Afternoon, you know, which, you know, was, for the time, amazing. I still think it's an amazing movie. It's actually playing at the Alamo this this month, so I'm really excited to go and see that again. But, you know, it's, it's written by, you know, cisgender people.

So, there's a lot of, you know, issues with that. But yeah, so growing up, there wasn't really a lot of trans representation you had, if you really searched for it, you had like Alexandra Billings, who's an amazing trans actress, but it really wasn't, I don't think, in your face.

I mean, now it's like, all you hear is about trans people, because the right wing is obsessed with us. You know, all we hear is, is about trans, we hear a lot about trans people now in very negative ways, which is good and bad. You know, it's bad in the sense of, like, they're they're showing us, they're saying terrible things about us, but at the same point, at least people know that we exist.

So, it's like that double-edged sword. It's kind of actually in Celluloid Closet. Harvey Fierstein talks about how we only had the fairies, the gay boys that were fairies in the movies, but he loves a fairy, you know. So, it's like, you know, it's a double-edged sword there. It's the same kind of thing.

But, yeah, so, so, you know, representation of transgender people was relatively non-existent, unless you really, really looked for it. And then overall representation, you know, like, we didn't have a lot, you know. Now, luckily, like when I started, you know, making movies, there was maybe 20 movies tops a year, tops a year that were queer if you combined mainstream and independent filmmaking.

Now there's 100, which is great. I mean, it's not as good for my wallet, because there's so many options, but it's great for representation. I love that there's more out there now than than ever before, but I will always, you know, go back to my my old favorites like Go Fish and, you know, But I'm A Cheerleader, Bread and Chocolate.

You know, gay movies like Between Love and Goodbye and The Big Gay Musical. You know, some some great independent films that I've watched and some I've worked on throughout the years were great to see and great to have more representation. But growing up, that was lacking for sure.

Rob Loveless

How did this evolution of queer representation from not having much of it when you were younger to seeing it increase over the years more recently, how did that inspire you as a filmmaker?

AJ Mattioli

Well, I think, you know, I always say, you know, I even say to my investors, if you're going to invest in a queer movie, it cannot be for the return. You know, you're probably not going to make a lot of money off of it. That's just the reality.

You have to make these movies because you feel is important that these movies are made, whether they're comedies, dramas, horror, whatever, you need to be on board because it's important.

Because there are kids in Ohio and Iowa and Alabama who are going to sneak to their rooms and watch these queer films without their parents knowing, and it's going to be the only thing that they have that is as close they can be to the community, right?

Because they don't have, they won't have one, they're scared to come out, you know, things like that. So, I think, you know, the more representation, the better, the more people making queer movies, the better the more can get into the hands of these kids that don't have, you know, real representation in their life, and are probably like banned from watching these movies, you know, it's important for them to have it.

I remember being a kid and, you know, watching a VHS of God, the Incredible Two-Adventures of Two Girls in Love. And I was holding the VHS of Biodome. This way, if we, like, my girlfriend's mom, came down the stairs, we can easily switch it out, you know, to switch it switch it out, and just pretend we're watching Biodome the whole time, you know.

So, I know that's happening, you know, in a different way with digital media, but it's still happening, you know. So, if I can give those kids something to watch, if other people can give those kids something to watch, that's massively important, you know? So, yeah, yeah,

Mattioli Productions (17:45)

Rob Loveless

And you told us about that bad experience on set with that MAGA Republican guy way back when, and how that kind of was the event that set it into motion for creating your own company.

So, can you tell us more about how you founded Mattioli Productions?

AJ Mattioli

Yeah, there's not really too much of a story there. I have very supportive parents. I'm very lucky and blessed in that, you know, thank the gods, the Goddesses, the trees, the spirits, whoever you want to thank you know, I was very, very, very lucky to have supportive parents, and I felt I really wanted to use my name, use my last name as a ode to them, and to say like, as a thank you to them.

You know, whether or not they're like, okay, our name is attached to a lot of gay sex. I don't know if they're super happy about that, but I wanted to pay tribute to my parents and what they have given me and supported me, you know, throughout time, throughout my life.

So, I that's how Mattioli Productions' name came about. And essentially, I just I was young, and I had no problem asking people for things. And, you know, just be like, hey, you want to give me $15,000 to help make this movie. You want to make me $20,000 to make this movie?

And people, you know, believed in me, and I don't know if they necessarily believe in the film. You hear that a lot when you're crowdfunding, like people are investing in you. They're not investing in your project, you know.

So, a lot of people want to invest in me, and I was able to make, you know, my two first films, one was The Coffee Shop, and the other was called Lady Peacock. So, yeah, yeah. So, and I just kind of grew from there.

Rob Loveless

And as a trans owned film production and distribution company, are there any unique challenges you face?

AJ Mattioli

I think money. I think money is always a challenge for independent filmmakers, but I think it's particularly challenging when you're honest. And I'm honest, and again, like I my investors know that this might be more of a donation than an investment, you know, but it is super important to get these movies out there.

So, money is always the always the challenge, right? I have an amazing crew. My crew is about 75% queer. The other 25% are outstanding allies that have been with my company for a very long time. 

Essentially, when I first started, I didn't realize how important it would be for me to have a queer crew, and I just hired whoever, you know, whoever was talented and not I didn't do the work yet, you know, to find a queer crew, and then there's just several people from the beginning who I just could not imagine making movies without.

So, they stuck around, and I was able to work with those allies. But again, 75% of the crew is queer. And I just think it's really important, you know, I think that you know, like, right now, I'm crowdfunding for a movie, and I remind people, like, you're not just investing in me.

You're not just helping; you know a new script come to fruition. Your your money goes to employ an under, you know, a misrepresented and underrepresented group of people. And you know your money, your money goes further with me because of that.

The Importance of Queer Film Representation (21:32)

Rob Loveless

Going off of that earlier, you mentioned that a lot of those early films that had transgender representation in it were often portrayed by cisgender actors and probably were written, produced, funded by cisgender people.

We also talked about that more in our should straight actors play gay roles episode where sometimes the queer representation we're seeing is being played by straight people.

Some people think it's an issue, and some people don't.

So, in your opinion, why is it important to have queer representation, not only on the big screen, but behind the scenes?

AJ Mattioli

So, no matter who is cast in the role, the people behind the scenes are the ones that are in charge of making the movie. It's how the movie looks, it's how the movie feels, it's how the movies edited, it's how it's directed. All that needs to be authentic.

You know if the if I say to my director photography and my gaffer, I need it to look, I need to see, to look like a gay club. They know right off the bat, neon lights. They know a little bit more dingy. You know that they know what it's supposed to feel like, it's supposed to look like.

They don't have to then do research. Like, okay, now I have to go to a gay like, now I have to go to a gay club to see what a gay club looks like. You know, like, obviously, there's different look some gay clubs. But when you say it, you, when you say gay club, you, you have the image in your head, you know, as a queer person, you're like, boom, this is what it looks like. I got it.

So, it's important for authenticity. It's also just important right now because things like DEI are getting taken away and people can, you know, be essentially fired now for being queer, which is disgusting. It's important because you're employing people who are otherwise deemed as less than or unemployable because of who they are and who they love or how they identify. So, I think that's really important. You know, yeah.

Streaming Platforms & Queer Representation (23:35)

Rob Loveless

You mentioned the piece about how DEI is being revoked, and a lot of companies that like to act like they were allies beforehand now are showing their true colors.

Target is one I've been very disappointed about. In a similar lens, but not the exact same as that, Netflix is a company that has had a lot of queer representation queer TV shows.

And in a past episode, we talked about how streaming services in the past few years have canceled a lot of queer shows, and I think Netflix was the biggest offender of that.

And specifically, Netflix has faced controversy for releasing comedy specials that feature anti trans commentary.

So, given the fact that many LGBTQ+ viewers turn to these streaming giants for queer content, what's your opinion on this?

AJ Mattioli

So, a lot of time. So, I'm, I'm, I'm on the fence with this, right? Because, you know, so when you have a company like Chick-fil-A, I often think, like, why say anything? Why say anything? Like, just whether you like queers or you don't like queers, by not saying anything, you don't alienate either side, so you're not losing money, right?

So, I, I genuinely don't understand these companies that are not queer owned, that feel like they have to make a stance, whereas, like Mattioli Productions, I have to make a stance. I'm queer, being queer, it's automatically political. It's just the reality. Whether we want to be political or not, it's just the reality of the situation.

But when it comes to streaming services, it's harder for me to say, well, why don't you just shut up and take money from everybody, because it is where we get our representation is where we get our culture from and is where we get our you know, influences from.

To not take a stance, um, is weak, it's weak um especially with a company like Netflix or Hulu or Amazon, where they have so much money that if they lost a little bit, who cares? You know what I mean, like, how much money do you need?

So, for the person, you know, the person running Netflix, to say, okay, we're gonna make money off of queer people on one end, and then the next minute, put Dave Chappelle's special on, it just shows that you have no they have no backbone, they have no real morals, they have no real standing points. They're just throwing everything on and hoping that people are going to continue to watch.

And the reality is we don't really have that many choices you know so we're going to you know what you know there are um there are plenty of platforms that are queer friendly like Reverie, Together Magic, GayBinge, Lesflicks, Deco, Here TV, a new one Colors TV just just came out. So, there are a lot of a lot of independent platforms that you can put your money into.

But the reality is those platforms are not going to get mainstream movies. They're just not. Reverie and TLA are starting to get more mainstream movies, which is great, but the majority of them are not right because they just simply can't afford it. So, you're kind of stuck with your Netflix, with your Hulu, with your Amazon.

So, you know when people like I'm gonna I'm gonna get rid of my Amazon I'm gonna get rid of my Netflix I'm gonna get rid of my Hulu, I appreciate that as a standpoint as a standing you know, moral standpoint but that's really hard to do, because that is where we get our media from. That is where we get the majority of our stuff from.

I just wish some of these companies would have a little bit more of a backbone and say, you know what? We made enough money. We don't need to put Dave Chappelle's program up. You know? I mean, and I use Dave Chappelle as the big one, because he doubles down constantly.

And the other reason is, you know, he had a trans woman named Daphne as his opener for a stand-up night, and his audience just attacked her online, and she wound up taking her own life, and it was really terrible and really really horrid and really disgusting. And he kind of made light jokes about it, which was kind of disgusting.

So I think when there's a direct correlation, when it's not just okay your words are hurting people when it's like No dude, your words literally hurt this person, there's a case point right here it's time for Netflix to stand up and say you know what that is where our line is and we're not going to cross that line anymore, you know, or say we're gonna have Dave Chappelle on but it's a Netflix special so he's not allowed to make trans jokes where you can.

We all know how contracts work you know I work with several brands that I have to show their company in a certain way and represent them in a positive way you know so there's no reason that Dave Chappelle can't be told via contract if you want to do this Netflix special, you cannot make trans jokes. That's it. So, like the fact that they won't even do that is quite disgusting, you know.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. And given the current political climate, I'm interested to see what happens with Netflix going forward, because while they did have a lot of queer content in the past, like I said, they were the biggest offender in terms of those that they had canceled in the course of the past few years.

And obviously, they haven't had the best track record of putting up people in quote-unquote comedy specials who really just kind of hurl out the hate speech. So, it's disappointing, but I guess we'll see.

AJ Mattioli

I also just think it's lazy comedy, like it's just lazy. Like, oh, trans woman, look like men, okay, like that. Like, it's been like, it's just lazy. Like, dude, that's the best you can come up with? Like, even when I get, like, I get a lot of hate mail from idiots. I got a lot of hate mail.

I got a lot of death threats I got a lot of I'd say like, for death at this point I'm averaging probably four to five death threats a month just because I make movies it's wild and a lot of them will say things like you'll always be a woman you'll always be a girl blah blah, DNA doesn't lie, and my response is always like bitch I have heard that 1000 times.

Like, if you're gonna come and at me be original, say something clever, like, this is all you got, this is what you got, um, because you like, you should never be transphobic. But if you're gonna be at least be funny, you know what I mean?

Like, like Nikki Glaser roasted um Caitlyn Jenner, and it was how to make a trans joke and do it not offensively. And she says, Caitlyn, you know, deep down, you always knew you were a woman, and that's amazing. And deep down, we always knew you were a cunt. And like, oh my god, what a great trans joke, right? Because it's not saying, I don't believe you're a woman.

It's not saying, you know, anything negative about trans people. It's saying something about her in a very and the word you know, cunt is usually used for women you know. So, it is reaffirming her gender to a point with an insult.

There is ways to make trans jokes that are funny, you know, that are can be a little pokey, you know. You know, we're not. Everyone thinks the trans community is so sensitive. And the trans people I know personally are some of the, you know, thickest skinned, you know, people I've ever met my life.

And it's like, you know, like, again, like, that's the best you got, you know. Like, don't be lazy about it. Don't be lazy about it, you know. So, I just think it's cheap comedy, you know. Like, you're not even you know, okay, like you're transphobic and you're a shitty comedian. Okay, great.

Ending Transphobia (31:37)

Rob Loveless

And given the transphobia that's being faced, one within our community, but two, from a media standpoint, what are some ways that we as members of the LGBTQ+ community can help counteract this hate?

AJ Mattioli

So, I know this is silly, and people make jokes about it, but if your parents are boomers, put the child lock on Fox5. Make it so they cannot get to it. Make it so they cannot get to it. I know that sounds stupid and silly, but that's the main that's where we're getting most of the hate.

That's where we're getting most of the lies about the trans community. And boomers hear that, you know, and and they they push it and they push it out, and they push it out, they push it out, and then people start believing it. So, I think that's the first thing to do.

Um, after that, it is don't only be an ally to trans people, if you're an LGBTQ or the straight community, don't just be an ally to us when we're in the room. If you're misgendering me when I'm not there, or you're letting people misgender me when I'm not there, or you're letting people talk shit, and it's easier to just, you know, ignore because who cares what they say they're stupid.

That's doing a disservice to us. You need to be an ally, and you need to be fighting for us all the time, all the time, you hear something come out that's not okay. You say something, you know, you know. I think people grow into that. I think it's a it makes people nervous to defend us.

I look at my dad a lot, and, you know, as a teaching old dogs new tricks thing when I first came out, you know, we'd be in a local bar in his neighborhood, and like, one of his friends would say a gay joke, and like, you know, my dad be like, what do you care? You don't even like this guy. Just leave it alone, you know. And you know, I would explain to him why it's not okay, and he's like, okay, you know.

And then it got to a point where, like, people would say gay jokes, and my dad would listen to what I said and be like, you know what? That's not okay. And he would debate them a little bit. And now it's at a point where, if he hears the word fag from three blocks away, he'll run and beat the shit out of the guy so like it's evolved.

And I think you have to give people the time to evolve, to get to that place, but it's important to tell them where they need to go, where that place is, where the end goal is, and the end goal is, you defend, you know, the same way. I hope you're defending People of Color the same way. I hope you're defending Black people, Indigenous people, the same way I hope you're defending people with disabilities, women, please be defending us in the same exact way. Just be defending us.

Be you know have talking points ready. You know, right now, everyone's calling us groomers, and everyone's you know, you know. And you know, my nephew goes to school in baseline Queens, which is suburban, I call it the Alabama of New York. And he I said something, I was going to a drag show. And he said, Oh, what's that? And I was like, first of all, how dare you.

So, I explained to him what a drag show is, and he goes, oh, those are the people that aren't supposed to be around kids. He just said it. He didn't think, you know, he just said he done, because that's what he's heard. So, I sat him down. I said, okay, Mikey, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about what, what you just said, right? And he's a good kid. He understood what I and my explanation, you know?

But I said, you know, there's a show called To Catch a Predator. That show has been on for a fucking decade, right? There's yet to be a transgender person, there's yet to be a drag queen on it. There's been priests, there's been uncles, there's been coaches, there have been dads, there's been, you know, there's a slew of people, none of which have been trans or or drag queens, you know.

And I was like, so when people say things like that, it's your job to do due diligence and say that doesn't sound correct. Let me, let me Google this real quick. So, I think it's important to, you know, reframe the conversation, you know, assume that people are hearing bad things, and we have to fix that. So, I think, you know, doing the job and doing the work for us because we are tired.

You know, the queer community, trans people, especially, we're exhausted. We're tired. I'm tired of fighting, tired of fighting. So having allies and other people within the LGBT community do the work is really important right now.

Making a Queer Movie (36:26)

Rob Loveless

Well, shifting gears a little bit. Can you tell us what the process of making a film looks like, from you know, saying action to getting it distributed?

AJ Mattioli

Yeah, so action is actually halfway through the filmmaking process. The production itself, when we're shooting, is the shortest part of production period. Pre-production lasts about it can I mean, development is first, right?

So, development is when you get into script written, you're raising, you know, then you go into fundraising, which can last several months, longer than you ever want it to last. And then you go into pre-production, where you get all your paperwork correct, you know, done, your call sheets, your schedules, your shot list, your storyboards, crewing up and getting your crew together, all that.

And then you go into production, which is really fun, and it's the best part of filmmaking. It is from, you know, getting to be on set. You know, I always say we are a privileged group that gets to play pretend for a living. We are grown adults that make, make believe all day.

And what a what a privilege that is to be able to do, to be one of the chosen ones that got to do that for a living is a matter of luck. You know luck and perseverance for sure, but a lot of luck goes into it. So, we shoot the movie usually 12-to-14-hour days, which is exhausting.

I you're a SAG, if you're lucky enough to go SAG, it's 10-hour days, which is a lie, you always go to 12 to 14, but you just pay more, if it's a union film, for overtime. But if you know, really a lot of fun when I'm on set, I can't wait for the next day to start. And then you go into editing. Editing is a long process.

So, there's there's every movie is three movies, there's the script, there's a director version of it, and then the edited version of it. You never really want to have the same person as all three, because then you don't really get to see what the movie can do. So, then you're in editing.

And editing is not just cutting things together, which is the biggest part of it, but there's color correction, which makes everything look your blues look bluer, your reds look redder, you know, filters that get put on, if it's a period piece, you know, that needs to be worked in. And then your sound design.

Your sound design is the last piece of the puzzle, and that is an art that I have never touched. It is it is so beyond me. I don't understand how people can look at a scene and go, oh, well, this need this kind of orchestration. It is so beyond my, my skill set, I just I don't know what, what is, what I'm lacking that I can't see that. I can't hear that while watching a movie.

So, I'm lucky enough to to have an amazing sound design, sound designer, but yeah, so you go from there to there, and then then you go to the festival circuit, which is very hard and very expensive. For anyone listening, don't just throw your movie into a festival submission.

Submit the film, write them, follow them on Instagram, comment on their posts. You need to be active or they're just gonna, you're just gonna, there's gonna take you money, and it's gonna fall in the wayside. Most of these festivals, you'll say they. Have, like, alumni movies playing and, you know, and then movies with names in it, and then you'll have like, a select five, or, you know, five to 10 movies that, like, really, they watched and picked out.

To be one of those five to 10, you need to be on them. You need to be on them. I'm excited about the festival. I'm going to come down with my crew, or I'm going to come down with some cast members. If you want to do a Q&A, this person in the cast lives in this neighborhood, so they would be happy to come down, you know, telling them that you can bring an audience, you know, really be on top of these festivals.

It's a lot of work, but it's, you're it's, it's a lot of work, but it gives you a much better chance of getting into the festival. If you are lucky, someone at the festival will see it, as far as distribution goes, and they will want to pick it up. Be careful. A lot of distribution companies are in it for themselves, which, listen, we all got to make money, but I've gone with distribution companies that have made me absolutely no money, and I've gone with distribution companies that have made me a lot of money.

So, do your due diligence in searching who's making you money? Who's who's making money? So, my first thing is, what movies have you put out? And I want the emails to the producers of those movies so I could talk to them about their experience with you. If a distribution company is not willing to give you that, they are hiding something.

Run, run, run, run, run, you can also self-distribute, which is a lot of work, but there are platforms out there now, like Film Hub, which allows you to put things up. You just don't have as much control. But it is, it is an option. And then you know, after that, you just wait, you just wait quarterly for your returns to come in when your fingers crossed.

You know it's important to note that distribution companies are not your public relations. They are not your marketing team. They're their job is to get it on the shelves. Your job is to either hire a PR person or be your own PR person to get people to go to those shelves to grab it, to watch it. So, it's a lot of Instagram, a lot of email blasts.

You know, people often feel that their email blasts are annoying people. And I always say, if people are annoyed by getting an email from you, they're not gonna watch your fucking movie anyway. So, if they unsubscribe, who cares?

They weren't gonna give you $1, they weren't gonna, they weren't going to, yeah, they weren't going to give you any money. They weren't gonna watch your film anyway. So let them go. You know.

Rob Loveless

Well, with that in mind, can you tell us about one of your films that you consider your favorite success story?

AJ Mattioli

My favorite success story? Yeah, yeah, I would say, out of all my films, I'm a little partial to Neon Boys. Neon Boys, I directed, and I really love the story.

It is about a guy who goes to jail for unknown reasons. He gets out of jail, and he's a straight guy who's unable to really get a job because he was in prison, and does go-go boys at gay bars in order to make money.

As his story and the story of another go-go boy that he meets. Neon Boys being the title because they're constantly in neon lights all the time, working in gay clubs. It's really, it's a drama. It's very it's a beautiful love story that's also very sad.

It's on Tubi, it's on Amazon, and all those platforms I listed earlier, your gay TLA, your GayBinge, and all those as well. It was just an amazing experience. My crew was very small for it, so it was a lot more intimate.

We really got to work with the actors in a real way, Jonathan Salazar and Matty Glitterati, whose real name is Maddie Kinkle, I believe. He's a DJ, so I just know him as Matty Glitterati.

They were amazing, the chemistry that they had. I wish I could take all the credit for being a good director, but really, the two of them just had amazing chemistry. So yeah, if you're gonna check out anything of mine, I highly suggest Neon Boys.

The Future of Queer Film Representation (44:44)

Rob Loveless

And what would you like to see more of when it comes to queer representation?

AJ Mattioli

I've probably seen more lesbian content with actual with what lesbian couples actually look like. You see, um. I was just watching the show The Sex Lives of College Girls, I think is the name of it. It's a cute show. You know, they do their best with queer representation.

But like, the lesbian characters is like, hot blonde and like, which, like, yeah, they're fucking hot blonde, femme lesbian, for sure, out in the community. But everyone she dated, every lesbian that was in the show, was femme. Every one of them was femme.

And if you go to Ginger Bar, or you go to Henrietta Hudson's, or any of the other lesbian bars, and you know, or The Bush in Bushwick, you know, any of the lesbian bars in New York, it is 75% studs, 25% femmes. And the studs are never shown on mainstream media.

They're shown on independent things. They're shown on independent like, you know, you know, a little bit on some reality shows, but for the most part, it's always cast as two hot, like femme lesbians, and it's just not. It feels very much like it's made for the cis male eye, as opposed to being made for lesbians, you know.

So, I want more, more actual representation of that. I feel that gay boys, the gay, the gay sector, has a lot of representation of different sorts. It's not always, you know, the ultra femme guys, you know, it really is based movie to movie.

So, I think we've made strides there. Transgender storylines are, I want more that aren't trauma porn. I'm tired of every trans movie being my mom doesn't love me. People don't understand me. But sometimes, believe it or not, our parents do love us.

Sometimes, believe it or not, our lives aren't a disaster, you know, we are striving and thriving, you know. And I think it's important to show that, you know, we only show sadness. It makes kids that are trans think that they're only going to have sadness, you know.

And the reality is that's not my life, you know. That's not a life, most of my friends have very good and healthy lives, you know, regardless if their parents are still around, regardless, you know, if you know they had to move to another state, regardless of all that, they're well-rounded individuals, you know. 

And I think it's important to show that, that we are more than just our trauma. We are more than just, you know, these pathetic cliches. We're more than that. We are we're stronger than that. We are much stronger than that. And I think we need more of that representation for sure.

Yeah, and then we can go into for days. I can do 20 different podcasts are new about how there's no bisexual representation. That's that's done well. Bi erasure is a real thing. Pansexual erasure is a real thing.

We're slowly making strides towards that, but it is slow. You know, bisexual was always cast as like the villains, you know, like, which is so ridiculous. So yeah, so I think that needs a lot of work bi erasure is a big deal.

Advice for Queer Filmmakers (48:28)

Rob Loveless

Definitely. And given the current political climate and increased attacks against the LGBTQ+ community, specifically the trans community, it seems like representation is more important than ever.

So, what advice do you have for aspiring queer filmmakers?

AJ Mattioli

If you are at an age where your friends are still willing to volunteer their time, make your movie, make your movie. Make your movie. Make your movie. Do not waste time. I don't care if you make it on a cell phone, make the movie. Get it out there. Put it up on YouTube. Just get it out there.

I think the more, the more voices we have, the better. So, yeah, so, so, all I can say is, if you want to do it, do it. We want to do a figure out how to do it. Whether that means you film it on your iPhone, or you're able to rent a red Komodo, you know, on Arri Alexa or a VHS camera. I don't give a shit.

Make it happen. We need more; we need more of you. We need more of that. We need more filmmakers in the queer community. So, let's get it done. Let's get it done and reach out to people.

Like people are always, you know, so surprised that I'm willing to give advice, you know, like I was on interview the other day to produce this film. And sadly, my rates were a little bit higher. They were young, and my rates were the rates of a 44-year-old person would give.

And they were like, oh, we can't afford you. And they're like, well, we have so many questions. I said, Whoa, whoa. Just because you can't afford me for the duration of the project, just because you can't afford me to have me as your main producer, does not mean that I am not willing to help.

I want more movies to be out there. So, if there was a question I got asked the other day, like, what's the legalities of showing art in film, you know? And I gave that answer for free. I don't need to be paid. If I have time, I will answer your question.

If I don't, I will simply say, Hey, I'm at work right now. I don't have time to answer this question. I might be able to get to it by the end of the week. If I'm not able to get to it by then, please feel free to like go and find somewhere else, but ask the questions.

Ask for help. Our community, in particular, are more willing to help than others, because we all want more representation. We all want that stuff out there, you know. So, you know, don't, don't be shy about asking the worst, worst thing that could happen is someone says no.

That's it, you know, like, and no is a full sentence. I always that's, I say that to people, no is a full sentence. Um, but ask, because that's the worst that can happen, is they say no.

Episode Closing (51:16)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, The Magician, again, this card reminds us that we have unlimited energy constantly flowing through us, and that we have the ability to create what we desire.

And like AJ talked about today, despite the struggles we're facing and the hate being hurled at the LGBTQ+ community, we are strong.

We are resilient, and it's never too late for us to begin a new journey.

So, it's really important that we're in touch with our passions and know our own strengths, so that way, we can take inspired action to create the future we want to see.

And in the realm of queer media, there are so many ways we can get involved. Whether we're a filmmaker or just a casual viewer, we can still show our support by promoting queer film.

And by creating the representation we so desperately need, we can make a better future for ourselves and future generations of LGBTQ+ people.

Connect with AJ (52:04)

Rob Loveless

Well, AJ, thank you so much for coming on today. This has been a great episode. As we're coming to the end of this, can you tell us a little bit more about your upcoming projects?

AJ Mattioli

Oh, yeah. So, I have two things right now. I have a movie called Glitter Baited that's in post-production. We are actually we just got final sound two days ago, and we are finishing up the credits, making sure everyone's name is spelled correctly. You know, a lot of people helped out.

So, Glitter Baited will be coming to festivals this coming year, and then we'll be out probably on some streaming services within eight to 12 months. And then I'm in fundraising right now for a movie called Try to Remember.

Oh, well, first, wait, Glitter Baited, what is it about, right? Glitter baited is a queer reimagining of Cyrano de Burgi, where, instead of the big nose, it is a heavy, heavier set Black man, which sadly the gay community is deemed as not as wanted, which is so sad and so disgusting.

But we we play with that. And so, look out for that. It's really, it's really a fun forest comedy. It's really good. I'm really excited about it.

The next one I'm doing fundraising for is called Try to Remember, and that's a movie about Eli, a transgender man who has to go back to Long Island to take care of his mother, who's been diagnosed with dementia, and the struggles of wondering, is she going to remember his transition?

Is she going to see him as her son, or is she going to think that it's her daughter? You know, we play with that, what that looks like, and what, you know, dealing with a mom with dementia, being a trans person, how those two things could really be problematic and dramatic.

Um, so we're playing with that, those themes. So, yeah, so if anyone out there is looking to, you know, help out, you know, invest, it's gonna be a good one. We're really excited.

We're talking to I can't say the names of actors that we're talking to, we don't have agreement from them yet, but there's gonna be some fun names attached to this film. So yeah.

Rob Loveless

Those both sound awesome. I can't wait to see that, so I'm definitely going to be adding them to my watch list as soon as they come out.

AJ Mattioli

Thank you. Thank you.

Rob Loveless

And can you tell the listeners where they can learn more about you and connect with you at Mattioli Productions?

AJ Mattioli

Yeah. So, Mattioli Productions is on Instagram. It's @MattioliPro. Obviously, my website is kept up to date, which is mattioliproductions.com. Yeah.

So that's pretty much what you keep you keep on me. If you type into Google, queer owned production companies, my company will come up.

So, if you can't spell Mattioli, or you don't remember it, just type in queer production companies in New York, and I will pop u.

Rob Loveless

And all that will be included in the show notes. So definitely check out AJ and Mattioli Productions after this.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (54:56)

Rob Loveless

And for the podcast, you know the drill. You can send any questions or feedback to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Five stars only. I greatly appreciate it.

For more information on this topic, our guest episode, resources, blog posts, links to merchandise, socials, all that fun stuff, you can visit the website ajadedgay.com.

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And remember: every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (56:22)

AJ Mattioli

I often say, like, when it's like a company like, let's just say Chik-fil-A, like...hey. Sorry, I had said Chick-fil-A, and the dog lost its mind.