133. Best of Guests (2024): Part 2

Episode Introduction (00:20)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another very special episode of A Jaded Gay. Part two of the best of guests for 2024. I hope you're excited.

Just to give you a quick heads up, this will be the last of it for 2024. I'm gonna take a little winter break, so I'm planning on coming back with new episodes in February of 2025.

Don't worry, though, I won't be completely gone. You'll still be getting blog posts every week. There's going to be bonus episodes for December and January, so keep an eye out for that.

But yeah, I thought we'd close out the year with part two of highlighting some really great guest insights from this year's episodes. So, hope you enjoy it. And without further ado, let's get into it.

Queens Slayin', Haters Prayin': A Drag-tacular Showcase with Bev, Philly’s Queen of Comedy (0:58)

Rob Loveless

I am excited to bring on a true queen today.

She is Philadelphia's Queen of Comedy and the 2019 Drag Queen of the Year. Please welcome, Bev. Hi, Bev, how are you today?

Bev

Hello. Lights, cameras, me without a stitch of makeup on. Hello. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well. Thank you for joining us today.

Drag also has a strong connection to LGBTQ+ rights and activism.

For example, during the Stonewall Riots, drag queens rioted against police repression of queer venues at Stonewall in 1969 and they risked their safety to march at the earliest Pride parades over the years that followed.

And then throughout the AIDS crisis, they raised funds for research and support services while they and their friends died from the disease. So how do you see drag intersecting with activism today?

Bev

Drag, I think has always been and will need to continue to be political. Dealt with a situation within the last year where I had to sever a relationship with a bar here in Philadelphia that I had worked at for 10 years because they tried to censor a performer from doing a number in support of Palestine.

They were a second-generation Palestinian immigrant, and I personally am pro-Palestine, but I get that there are those that are not, but I don't think it's the place of a bar owner or bar management to be policing what statements can or can't be made in there, like, just in general.

And that particular situation, that owner said to us, he's like, I just don't want anything political in my building. I was like, do you understand that there wouldn't be a gay rights movement without, nowadays they would be referred to as trans women, back then, they were considered transvestites or drag queens.

But like, if it weren't for Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson actually beginning the Stonewall Riots, we wouldn't have the modern gay rights movement.

You can't tell a room full of performers that they can't do anything political. I think that now with what's going on in the world, yes, I approach things from comedy, but I still do things poking at those in power that are keeping us down and are establishing laws and sanctions that are meant to keep us down.

And I think that it is, it is important for drag performers as artists to continue to resist that and comment on that and and keep it visible because what you're seeing on the news doesn't reflect that.

You have to get that sometimes from art because you're not going to get it from quote-unquote non-biased journalism.

And drag, while it can be scapegoated, it also is, it is scapegoated because people are putting themselves out there for the purpose of being visible.

Rob Loveless

Over the past few years, we've seen a rise in drag bans and anti-drag legislation claiming that drag is such a threat to children. So, can you tell us more about that?

Bev

Sure. I think it's all distraction. It's it's it's, if we cared about children and we cared about protecting them, then we would have banned guns 20 years ago.

You can't say that you're worried about the safety of your child when a child has never been killed at a drag queen story hour. A drag, a child has never been killed at a drag show.

They lots of them have been killed in school shootings. And I'm not going to go, not gonna talk about religion or the church or anything, but as far as protection of children, they're not exactly protected there as well.

It's a lot of it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and, oh, look over there to deflect from a lot larger political issues.

Last summer with the drag bans and with like places pulling sponsorships and pulling Pride relationships, it just it, it's, it all comes down to money, unfortunately and who's paying the bills and who's not.

And it's a lot easier to look at a marginalized community who you think is passive and not going to fight back.

And that's why shows like We're Here on on HBO, and things like that are out there, and like actively resisting that type of that type of viewpoint.

Opening Doors: Navigate the Real Estate Rainbow with Ryan Windt (5:42)

Rob Loveless

I am very excited to welcome our next guest. He is my good friend and realtor. He helped me find my house, and he's always windting.

Get what I did there, winning, windting? Please welcome Ryan Windt. Hi Ryan. How are you today?

Ryan Windt

Great, Rob, how are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well. Thanks for coming on the show today.

Very excited to have you come on and share all your house-hunting knowledge with us.

What advice would you have for someone who's considering buying a house but doesn't know where to start, or if they can even afford a down payment?

Ryan Windt

I mean, I think we answered some of those questions, so now it would be step one, listen to A Jaded Gay podcast. But no, seriously.

I mean, it's never too early to start the conversation. Reach out to your friends, brothers, aunts, whatever, who's a real estate agent. Reach out to me and just kind of get that conversation going.

I would also recommend starting a conversation with a lender. It's again, never too early. They can soft pull your credit, and if there are flags, they can give you advice on what you should fix.

You know, I would say, get a handle on your credit. Get a good understanding of where you're at financially, according to the credit bureaus. And yeah, obviously, put some money away.

Like I said, if we can, I've had buyers purchase with less than $10,000 but it doesn't always happen that way.

You know, there are a ton of grants and assistance for down payment programs that we can see if buyers qualify for. But again, that's all things that we would talk about in a consultation.

And, you know, get, get all your questions answered, so definitely develop, develop your questions, and reach out to anybody that you trust to go through this process with.

Advocate Your Ass Off with Anthony Munger (7:39)

Rob Loveless

He is the program manager for the Louisville Pride Foundation, a licensed social worker, and a god amunger men when it comes to advocacy work.

Please welcome Anthony Munger. Hi Anthony, how are you today?

Anthony Munger

I'm great. How are you, Rob?

Rob Loveless

Doing very well. Thank you. I'm glad to have you on the show.

Anthony Munger

I'm very happy to be here. Thank you.

On top of the resources you were talking about, it seems like there's quite a few activities focused on training drag performers and queer influencers to be community health workers.

So, can you tell us more about that and the importance of LGBTQ+ healthcare awareness?

Anthony Munger

This is just pure, unadulterated queer joy for me.

There's one thing that we got to write into the grants, is that we would have drag queens and LGBTQ influencers become community health workers, which means they take 40 hours of training in community health with a certified class, and then they take an additional eight hours in mental health first aid, then they are certified through the state to be community health workers.

So, once they do that, they can go on stage, use their platforms, and this includes social media to do PSAs, where whenever they talk about my vaccine program or the HIV program or the harm reduction, even if they do it for a minute, I can pay them $100 of Kentucky's money.

And it just delights me that with and this is almost every state, but every legislative session, they try to cancel drag queens and trans people. And I found a way to take that state's money and pay drag queens and trans people and a few cis-gendered individuals directly.

Also having that community health worker training gives them a little foot in the door for community leadership. And when next February comes around and we have another legislative session and another 14 bills which, mind you, we killed them all this last year.

Absolutely none of them ended up being heard or passed. But when they come around again, the drag queens are not just clowns. They're not just performers. They're not, you know, they are people that are trying to help you and save you.

They're trained in diabetes management, they're trained in cardiovascular health, and they can help empower people to have better conversations with their doctors and advocate for themselves and make decisions on themselves, especially when you get into rural Kentucky, decisions are made for oneself based on what the community believes and what your family believes.

And very more often than not, in rural Kentucky, there is no one else that is LGBTQ or there's just a couple of people. So, people end up making decisions that aren't necessarily, necessarily for them.

So that's where my CHWs, my drag queens say, hey, did you know you're at a higher risk of this? Do you know that this happens? You know you can take better care of yourself, or you're feeling lonely?

This drag queen is someone that you can talk to and someone that can connect you and bring people in.

And even if they don't end up coming to one of our vaccine clinics or getting testing for HIV, they will come in for a movie night, because just being around other queer people, where there's no expectation to even be looked at, you just look at a TV and have fun and have popcorn.

It's very liberating for a lot of people. So, I am very, very proud of that. Very.

Spectrums of Pride with Max Korten (11:43)

Rob Loveless

He is a runner and researcher, and here to talk about his experiences as a gay man with autism.

I'm very excited to welcome my friend, Max Korten. Hey Max. How are you today?

Max Korten

Hi, Rob. I'm doing well.

Rob Loveless

Thank you for coming on today to talk about a very important topic. Very excited to have you share your insights.

How do your experiences of having autism and being gay intersect and influence each other?

Max Korten

So, I think, like I said previously, there's a lot of, like, hidden, like, agendas and rules with, you know, being gay and certainly gay dating that I just don't like. I've had to, like, learn on my own.

They didn't really come natural to me. So that is really hard. I think whenever I tell perspective dates that I'm autistic, there's a lot of like surprise, because people, well gay men, they have this like vision in their head about, like, what someone with autism looks like.

And that can be, you know, their, their, their first response is like, oh, I'm really surprised that you have autism. I would have never guessed.

And I feel like, sometimes, like, not all the time, I feel like, whenever I tell you know, guys I'm dating, or, like other other acquaintances, that I'm autistic, there's, like, some, you know, infiltrating.

Like, they almost try to treat me like I'm a bit of a little kid because I think they don't want to, like, you know, ruffle any feathers.

So that can be, like, you know, a little bit difficult to navigate, but usually, like, sometimes, like, I just, like, ask, like, my friends for advice.

I'm also, you know, I have a life coach, and he, like, gives me some like, you know, ideas, and gives me some ideas and like, recommendations of how to date.

But, you know, as a so, like, I'm a researcher by trade. That's like, what I do for my day job. And I'm like, I wish there were kind of like, some best practices on how to date.

But dating is so like, it's so um black, and it's such a fluid system. And when you're like neurodivergent, you tend to think in very like black and white terms.

So, it can just be, it can just be a very like, challenging process.

Rainbows Don’t Paint Themselves with Jacoby Nordberg (14:30)

Rob Loveless

He makes queer art for theme parks. Please welcome Jacoby Nordberg. Ji, Jacoby. How are you today?

Jacoby Nordberg

Hey there. I'm good. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well, thanks. Thanks for coming on today to talk to us about all things queer art.

Jacoby Nordberg

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Rob Loveless

Of course.

How important is it for you to create visibility for LGBTQ+ issues through your art?

Jacoby Nordberg

Well, that's very important. I mean, even just being a representative, being a person in the room who is queer, and to know that person was on the team or the project that in itself, is very important to have that voice or that working hand.

You know, if it's a big project that we're working on in the parks, even just being that voice in the room, or knowing that someone is doing that, is something that maybe, like the seven-year-old self of me would be like, oh, so I can do that. You know?

Even though my job is sometimes, most times, an un a thankless job, you would say, because it's kind of unknown. We're just kind of in the background. We're in the crew. But in my, like, gallery fine artwork.

I mean, yeah, like I said, in my personal work, it's very important to have that person in the room that that work in the gallery that is surrounded by other pieces that's like, oh, this person's queer, but it's not, you know, it's not like a new thing or a surprise that, oh, a gay guy's painting.

Like, wow, okay, alert the news. But no, it's always great, especially if the representation is in the work or talking about a subject that's not maybe talked about a lot.

Like maybe at the intersection of being a person of color and queer, or someone with a disability and queer, or in a state that is not known for being very queer, or a country that's not known for being very queer-focused, or representative. Yeah, very, very cool.

Rob Loveless

And what advice would you give to young LGBTQ+ artists who are just starting out?

Jacoby Nordberg

I would say, find the mentor. Find the person that's even someone your own age, like, find someone that is in your space online, no matter where you know where you are.

Find someone that you can just share your work with, bounce ideas back and forth, keep that journal, keep that Pinterest board, whatever you need to do, your TikTok collection, whatever it is, um, but to even have one person as community.

So, like, even to find that one person that might be your same age or older and gone through it, to have that mentorship between two people is very, very important, um, because you might be seeing one thing one way, and they could see the other way.

And that goes for the life stuff too. Like they might, you might be like, oh, I don't know how to come out, or I don't know when to come out, and you're overthinking it, or you're, um, need to take a step back, or whatever.

Like, definitely find a person that can help you grow and learn from.

Get Pop Cultured with Carmine Davis (17:12)

Rob Loveless

I am very excited to bring on today’s guest. He is a singer and host of The Carmine Davis Show.

Please welcome Carmine Davis. Hi, Carmine. How are you today?

Carmine Davis

Hey, I'm great. I'm great. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing, well, thank you. I'm very excited that you're joining us today, a fellow podcaster and also a pop musician. So, lots of fun things to talk about there.

In what ways do you think pop culture and pop music can be a force for positive change for the LGBTQ+ community?

Carmine Davis

I think it always has been. You know, from the days when I look like Patti LaBelle is another one of my huge inspirations, and back when they were Dolly Parton and they were very vocal about the AIDS epidemic and how that like and that pushed the narrative of like, making shows like The Golden Girls or Family Matters address those issues that were going in pop culture and why we treated people so horribly right for dealing with something that was happening.

Like this was happening to them, not because of them, and it changed the way people viewed it. They're they're stigmas and all that towards it, but it changed the way people looked at it and related to it. And I think to now where that we need to just drive that point home.

You know, of queer spaces. Luckily now, people like RuPaul and all that, you have drag queens, all those things in your room at any time, like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, so it helps now with political like, where we're at a political standstill for women's rights, LGBTQ rights, I think they're going to remember Carmine Davis when it comes to voting and being like, oh, that, that that boy makes brings a light to my life, like, I want to see him do well. I believe that.

I think they're going to look at Rob and be like, oh, he's so smart, and he's, you know, all these things, and he he's as inspiration to me. He made me want to create a podcast.

And so, when it comes to defending him, everybody's not going to be there, and everybody's not going to do that.

But because of pop culture, because the platforms that that we have like now, we're able to tell our stories, we're able to talk, we're able to spill tea, we're able to have these exchanges just like everyone else.

I think it's going to push us to the point where people are I believe it. I don't think it's not going to happen. I think that we are going to be better for it.

Turning the Page on Queer Book Bans with Alexander Rigby (19:48)

Rob Loveless

He is a New York Times Best Selling editor at Penguin Random House and curator of the publisher's LGBTQ+ network.

Please welcome Alexander Rigby. Hi, Alexander. How are you?

Alexander Rigby

Hey there, Rob. I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

Rob Loveless

Of course. Thanks for coming on today.

In recent years, we've seen an increase in censorship and book bans related to LGBTQ+ literature.

You've talked about Penguin Random House working at the legal level to prevent some of these book bans. Can you tell us a little bit more about that work?

Alexander Rigby

We actually have a banned books site, which people can can check out to see what we're doing at the legal level, that Penguin Random House has posted about, as well as the PRHLGBTQ+ network.

So that banned books website gives information to people about how to email your representatives to talk to them about book bans and how to fight back against them.

It gives information about writing letters to schools and local press, directions on how to report censorship and to fight back against it, as well as figuring out what else is going on in your community.

There are resources to learn about how to support your child if they identify as part of the LGBTQIA+ community.

So that banned book site is something that Penguin Random House has put together as sort of a resource to explain all the different things we're doing as a publisher to fight back against book bans, as well as giving readers some resources and recommendations for what they can do, you know, at the more local level and just as individuals to fight back against book bans.

So, I think that that website is is a nice source of information.

Rob Loveless

How does Penguin Random House handle issues related to LGBTQ+ diversity and representation in its publishing and editorial decisions, especially as it relates to supporting LGBTQ+ authors?

Alexander Rigby

I think, you know, publishing has, unfortunately, notoriously, not been super diverse in the past.

I think I kind of mentioned this in terms of, like, just location-wise, with, like, in the past, New York City being kind of the epicenter for publishing in the US.

I think that really made some people not able to work in publishing just because the cost of living in New York City is so high.

So not only in terms of being able to have more remote workers now in different parts of the country, I think that really opens up people of all different backgrounds, ethnicities, cultures, sexual orientations, to be able to work in publishing.

But PRH is a super queer-friendly workplace. In all of our guidelines, there's like no tolerance for any kinds of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, any of those kinds of things.

So, it's a very queer-friendly publisher, which is, which is great, and then it's also just been great to see, even in the few years that I've worked here, queer and LGBTQ+ publishing is actually one of the portions of publishing that is on the rise.

And we're actually publishing more and more queer books, which is so exciting to see because there has been more, you know, over the past few years, and they've been doing well, kind of across the board.

So, I think it goes to show there's really a desire for more queer titles, and not only for other queer people to read, but all different kinds of people enjoy reading queer stories.

So, I think there's been an investment for editors to acquire more titles by writers who identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community, which I think is really important.

As I mentioned, I really try to seek out and encourage writers who identify as part of the community to submit to me. I have a couple queer authors that I've published books by.

One was Gay Science by Rob Anderson, which was a New York Times bestseller, which was a lot of fun to work on, and I have a couple other ones coming up soon.

So, I think really just prioritizing it and making sure that our lists of titles are as diverse as possible in kind of all of the different categories and making sure those those stories are heard.

Unpack Your Gay Emotional Baggage with Dr. Jason Durant (24:03)

Rob Loveless

He is a prominent gay psychologist and recent author of Boy from the North Country.

Please welcome Dr. Jason Durant. Hi, Jason. How are you today?

Dr. Jason Durant

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

Rob Loveless

Of course, thanks for coming on. I think this is a really great topic that we're going to be talking about since almost every podcast episode has some tie into mental health.

So very important to discuss and your book, which we'll get into as well, is a great immersion into mental health within gay men, especially from a first-person point of view, and your own personal experiences.

Reading through it, a lot of the book resonated with me. I'm sure it'll resonate with a lot of the gay readers out there.

But one line that really jumped out to me was on page 138, you write:

"Falling in love with a man who could never love you is never going to go smoothly."

And this is something I've experienced, especially when I first came out.

And it's interesting because I've been transcribing some older podcast episodes, and I recently transcribed one from January of 2023 called Are You Emotionally Unavailable?

And I forget who said it, but one of the articles that I cited in that, the author said something along the lines of falling in love with an emotionally unavailable man is one of the worst things you can do for your mental health.

And I think it's a trap that so many gay men seem to fall into at some point in their dating journey.

So why do you think that is, and what kind of impact can this have on a gay man's mental health?

Dr. Jason Durant

That's a big one. There could be a book about that one sentence there. I mean, I have experienced it multiple times. In fact, my earliest relationships were sort of a string of those experiences.

Almost every client that has come into my office and going on 15 years in private practice, has at least one or two stories about that experience. And I think there's two pieces to it.

I think as men, emotional unability, -availability is kind of trained into us a lot of the time. We're not supposed to be vulnerable. We're not supposed to be allowing ourselves to be impacted.

We can't appear too caring. So, there's that side of it, and then there's the side of us who maybe is a little desperate to be loved, but isn't quite ready, so finding someone who's doing that emotional unavailability thing sort of fits the bill.

It feels like love, because maybe we grew up feeling that love was always a little unrequited, and I think a lot of gay men relate to that just because of the nature of being in the closet and the shame and all of that, we find people.

And it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a little bit sad when you think about what's going on there, I think a lot of the time is we're actually afraid to really be loved, so we seek out these relationships with people who are not able to do it for one reason or another.

Maybe they're not in love with us, maybe they're heterosexual, maybe they're just not that into whatever it is, and then we find ourselves repeating all of that self-loathing and re-traumatizing ourselves.

And it's very impacting, because people will talk about being in those kind of situationships or even delusionships for years, and it affects their performance.

It affects their self-esteem; it affects their productivity. I mean, it's a it's a pretty serious and under-discussed topic. I'm not saying it's unique to the gay community.

I'm just saying it's very common in our community.

Queer Frights & New Media: Horror Beyond the Screen with Bobby Torrez (27:37)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, I am very excited to welcome our next guest. He is a horror tuber and podcaster who likes it on the spooky side. Please welcome Bobby Torrez.

Hi, Bobby. How are you today?

Bobby Torrez

I'm pretty good. How are you? Thank you for having me.

Rob Loveless

Doing well, thanks. Thanks for coming on. I'm very excited for this episode like we were talking about before we started recording.

I've just been for so long now in the Halloween mood, and we're finally here. So, I'm excited to join another horror lover to talk all things spooky.

What would you like to see in the future of queer horror?

Bobby Torrez

Queer horror, like, like I mentioned earlier, like just you know us and more of the spaces in the writers' room you know, more people like us.

And what I mean, like more people like us in these roles, like main characters centered around us like we shouldn't always be the supportive friend or the neighbor or, you know, the sacrificial person. Why can't we be, you know, the the main character?

So that's why I give like Fear Street some props, because the main character in that one, you know, is queer. But I can't really name too many that I know of that where the main character is queer, especially in mainstream horror. So, yeah, I want to see more of that, because why the hell not? Like we have stories too, for sure, and there's some movies out there.

There's a lot, so some low-budget ones. There's one that I think I mentioned to you and Travis when we were out, called Midnight Kiss. There's that one that's on Hulu.

That one's a lot of fun, predictable, but it's gay as fuck. There's another one called Spiral, not the saw spiral, but there's one called Spiral with Jeffrey Boyer Chapman.

He's a real queer person, and he hosts RuPaul Drag Race Canada version. And I think he was also on a gay film called The Skinny, not porn or anything. It's just, you know, a group of friends, gay film, whatever. Fun. Anyway, he stars in this. He has a he's in an interracial relationship.

His partner is white, and he has a daughter, and they moved to this new town. And you seen this before? Have you? Did you see Spiral?

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I forgot the name of it, but as you're talking through this, I did watch it in the past couple weeks with my friend.

Bobby Torrez

Okay. And they were like, gaslighting him and making him like crazy, doing all these things. It was like a cult involved. So, yeah, it was cool to see that representation.

I just hated how they did certain things in that movie. Um, but yeah, it's just like, I want to see more things like that, just because, again, that character was in the forefront, main character, but like, mainstream, like, I want more people to experience it, and even if it's not mainstream, like, can we talk about it more?

Like, if the movie's Good, let's just get it out there where everybody's talking about it, because that's how some movies become cult classics. Like, when they first when those movies came out, nobody didn't talk about them. Nobody probably didn't care about them.

But now today, everybody's obsessed. They love them. So why can we do the same thing today with, like, the newer ones? We're still stuck on the old ones.

So yeah, I want to see more of that. I want to see us more front and center there, stories set around us for a change. Because again, we are people. We have lives.

You know, we have interesting things going on with us. So, yeah, I want to see more of that.

Gay of the Dead: Unleashing Queer Horror with Sean Abley (31:19)

Rob Loveless 

He is an acclaimed horror journalist, award-winning playwright, and creator of Gay of the Dead. Basically, he is a beary buff, horror buff. Please welcome Sean Abley.

Hi, Sean, how are you today?

Sean Abley

I'm doing well. I'm ready to unjade you on your podcast.

Rob Loveless

That's the point of having guests on. Trying to, you know, heal the jadedness here.

Sean Abley

Yay. Well, I'm here. I'm up for the job.

Rob Loveless

Awesome, awesome. Well, I'm very excited to have you on for our very special Halloween episode this year.

What would you like to see from the genre going forward?

Sean Abley

I think that, really, I don't know if I want anything specific. I think it's just so the horror genre is unique in that the fans are the filmmakers are the journalists are the, you know, that it's the one genre where everybody can be everything and remain everything else.

Like the the fan can become the filmmaker and remain the fan can be then become the journalist. Like can become the, you know, the academic and so we can create stuff in our ecosphere, and I think as we do that, obviously people come into it from the outside as well, and that's fine, but I think what I would like to see is that we continue to ask for more.

I am not averse to a popcorn movie, or some dumb low-budget something, you know, gore for gore's sake. I love all that stuff, and it definitely is, you know, part of my horror movie diet. But I also love this, this sort of art house stuff that's coming out right now.

And um, you know, I loved In a Violent Nature and Skinamarink. And, you know, these types of films that, really, you know, when we say push the boundaries, I don't mean like an extreme gore. I mean in, like, what you think an audience will put up with.

And I think that's good for our you know, it's very easy. You know, one of the things that is sad but true is that making a horror movie is like the easiest way into Hollywood, and it's one of the easiest way is to get your film seen, because there's a built-in audience for it, and we as a community have proven that we will consume like the cheapest shot on your iPhone made for $5 horror movie offered to us.

And so, there's, there can be a a temptation just to get in on it, right? That's fine, but I hope that we will also make sure that we let the like Jordan Peeles of the world know, I'm dropping his name like he's got any worries in the world, but letting the people like that make the Skinamarinks and the In A Violent Natures know that we appreciate what they're doing, and so not only will they make more, but other people will see that and be like, Oh, well, I've got this idea that I was worried that maybe wouldn't land because it's a little too like, nuanced or esoteric, whatever. I'm gonna give that a shot. That's what I would like to see.

Rob Loveless

And how would you encourage listeners to get involved in the queer horror community?

Sean Abley

Well, like I just said, you know, the fans are the filmmakers are the journalists are the academics, like we do everything, so just be part of it. You know, just, just pick a lane.

You don't have to stay in that lane but just pick one. If you want to make a movie, make a movie. I you know there's, there are filmmakers that I've talked to, notably Joshua Pangborn and the Monster Makeup Guys who wanted to make a movie had never made a movie, didn't know about making a movie, but made a movie, and they're having success.

So just, sort of, not just sort of, just be part of it, honestly. Now it's it will be, you know, there are some brighter lights of the horror community that may seem unattainable, or it may seem a little cliquey or what have you, but you know, I think that there are other tables besides the cool kids' table that you can sit at, and that's where sometimes the more interesting people are.

So yeah, just if, if, if you are a person who loves horror, especially if you're queer, or you know, the horror community is very welcoming to queer people, just like, jump in somewhere, and then you'll, you'll, you'll find it.

Gay Icons: The Queen of Pop with Stefan Mreczko (35:58)

Rob Loveless

He is a photographer and host of the MLVC Podcast, the Madonna podcast.

Get ready to get into the groove. Please welcome Stefan Mreczko. Hi, Stefan. How are you today?

Stefan Mreczko 

I'm fantastic. How are you?

Rob Loveless 

Doing well. Thank you for joining us. I'm very excited to have another gay icon series here. I did a few last year, but this is the first main one that we're doing for 2024 right towards the end of the year.

I think it's very fitting to bring you on as a special guest because we have a lot to cover with the Queen of Pop herself, Madonna.

Stefan Mreczko 

Madonna.

Rob Loveless 

Yes, the prototype for many of our modern-day pop stars here.

Stefan Mreczko 

For sure, for sure.

Why does Madonna's music resonate so much with gay men?

Stefan Mreczko 

I, well, so I don't know if it's necessarily just the music. I think maybe the music was the avenue for which gay men sort of saw her. I mean, obviously, her music and her music videos were sort of what drew attention to her.

But she's strong, she's assertive, you know, she's very outspoken. She knows what she wants. You know she's she's not afraid to be sexual. I mean, she's always featured beautiful men in her videos and on stage.

You know, she's fashionable, I think all of those traits, sort of is what you know gay men, you know, it's what resonates with gay men. You know they you know, she's strong woman, she's beautiful.

You know, like, I mean, I remember as a high school kid, I I wanted to dress exactly like her male dancers in her Vogue video.

You know, I was like, I want, I want to wear that. Not, not, not just as Madonna, but as the male dancers like I wanted to look as sharp as they did in those suits.

Rob Loveless 

Hey, I mean, I'm not opposed to wearing a cone bra every now and then, so. Going off of that, though, a little bit years ago, I read this book called Straight Jacket by Matthew Todd, and I two years ago, when I started the podcast, I did an episode on pop queens and their emotional appeal to gay men.

And in that book, I cited that research for that. In the book Straight Jacket, Matthew Todd explains that pop queens typically appeal to gay men through one of four categories which she kind of identified, and these include an assertion of aggressive sexuality, escape through music, empowerment/I'm too good for you, and I'm not good enough for you/victim.

So how do you see Madonna's discography paralleling any of those themes?

Stefan Mreczko 

And thank you for providing those in advance. Because I was like, I had to give that a little bit of thought, because I was like, hmm. So, I'm and I do feel she has, she does sort of cover off a couple of those themes in some of her music.

So, an assertion of aggressive sexuality, that one's super easy. I mean, she's had music from the very beginning, like Physical Attraction, which is a killer early Madonna song. It's so good.

Obviously, Justify My Love, Erotica, I mean, on her Rebel Heart album, which came out nine years ago, there was, you know, a song called Sex. So, she's constantly, sort of like in that sexuality. It's in your face, it's it's there, it's kind of hot, you know, it's kind of sexy.

Sometimes it's not, sometimes it is. But yeah, so that she takes, she takes that right there. The second one escape through music. I mean, Madonna has hands in the air like carefree, anthemic dance music. You know, like her very first single, Everybody.

Then there's, of course, Holiday, Into the Groove. She had that song come out, I think it was 2009, called Celebration. So, there's always these, sort of, like, carefree, I mean, Confessions on a Dance Floor, she had Get Together.

You know, like, there's songs about just like being free because of music or because of dancing. The empowerment, I'm too good for you. I think one the first song that came to mind, I was like, She's Not Me, off of her Hard Candy album where she's basically saying, you know, like, well, you might have that girlfriend, but she's not me. I'm better than her.

And on her Rebel Heart album, she has Living for Love, which is all about like, you know what, I fell down, but I'm gonna pick myself back up. I'm gonna put my crown back on my head, and I'm gonna keep on going.

So, I think a lot of her songs sort of fit in that where it's, like, definitely empowerment, like, Express Yourself. You know, where she's talking about, you know, don't go for second best. You know, like, it's your respect yourself, basically. And the final one, you said, I'm not good enough for you/victim.

So, I don't think, I I could be wrong. I didn't like deep dive on, like every single song, but Madonna doesn't usually play victim in any of her music. I think the closest I could think of for that would be off of her Like a Prayer album, just a song called Oh Father.

And I think in, Oh, Father, I mean the video more so than the actual content of the lyrics, which is her portraying a person who was in a abusive relationship and trying to escape that.

So, I think, you know, or like in in her Erotica album, she has Bad Girl where she talks about here like I've smoked too many cigarettes today. I'm not happy when I act this way. I think that's sort of maybe like, the closest you can kind of get to that.

But for the most part, she never really, sort of tries to sing as if, like, I'm a victim. I mean, she has Rescue Me as a song, which I always thought was a strange song for her, lyrically and message-wise, because that's the only song where she's ever been like someone, please come rescue me, you know, like, help me.

Because I think Madonna has always been very proud of taking care of herself, you know. And I think that's sort of been her overall message, but, yeah.

The Gay Wellness Revolution with Peter DeWitt (42:16)

Rob Loveless

I'm very excited to introduce our next guest. He is the founder of Gay Wellness. Please welcome Peter DeWitt. Hi Peter. How are you today?

Peter DeWitt

Hi, Rob. I'm well, thanks.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us today. I'm super excited to have you come on to tell us all about gay wellness.

I think it's a very important topic we cover in a lot of our episodes, but especially as we're coming up on the holiday season. So, tons of great stuff there.

can you tell us what your own personal definition of gay men's wellness is?

Peter DeWitt

Yeah, I just think it's an ethic, it's a, it's a lifestyle, it's a way of being, of making choices moment to moment that are trending and pointing towards a an internal sense of goodness, feeling good, feeling good in your body.

So, whether it's eating good food, relaxing your body through something, some kind of like therapy or like exercising your body, you know, and that, or like, you know, working your your mind and your emotions and working out your issues.

These are all things that point towards a feeling of wholeness and of goodness and what, and health, and on all levels, on mind, body, spirit. It's really, it's so I say, I think it's a lifestyle.

It's like brushing your teeth. You have to make, you have to make things habitual, so that, so that we have to make these things habitual, so that we don't make other things habitual that are escapist and that are like numbing, and that are ways of escaping, and, you know, avoiding the pain and the suffering.

We all have pain. We all have suffering. So, you know, it's, it's a lifestyle of choosing, you know, moment to moment, things that are better for us.

And by the way, I'm not, I'll be 100%, I'm not like Mr. Wellness over here, like I am not. Like I, I do like to have a few drinks every now and then, I just, you know, I'll have a smoke every now and then.

I don't really smoke regularly or drink regularly, but, like, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not like, Mr. Perfect, clean club, clean cut wellness.

But I do try to, you know, check all, all the boxes that I can around, you know, I go to therapy a lot. I do my yoga, I exercise, I meditate every morning, 30 minutes.

You know, I, I have a lifestyle that is the found, the foundation of it is something that creates that sense of wholeness and well-being.

Pride in Motion: Inclusive Fitness and Body-Positive Coaching with Roy Belzer (44:45)

Rob Loveless

I'm very excited to welcome on our special guest. He is a body-positive fitness coach and thique goddess. Please welcome Roy Belzer. Hi, Roy. How are you today?

Roy Belzer

I'm doing well. How are you doing, Rob?

Rob Loveless

Doing well, thanks.

So, what advice would you give to LGBTQ+ people who are struggling with body image and potentially eating disorders?

Roy Belzer

Yeah, well, especially when it comes to the holidays, I know so many of us in surrounding ourselves with family this time of year, we do have those, you know, kooky aunts and crazy uncles who will always comment on our bodies, and where we're at, and it's hard to just pay them no mind, but remembering that at the end of the day, it is your body that you are living in, and they are not is so important.

And when it comes to like eating during these times, eat what brings you joy, and don't eat past that point, because otherwise, you're going to be cranky when you're dealing with these idiots.

But eat what brings you joy because this is a joyful time for foods. It's a joyful time for coming together around meals and yeah, just kind of remember that your body is a good body, regardless of where you're at right now.

It has been a hard couple of years, and our bodies might be in a different place than they've been in the past, and that's okay.

Episode Closing (46:18)

Rob Loveless

All right. So that is it. The best of guests for 2024. Everyone out there, thank you so much for listening.

I think this was a really big year for the podcast. I learned a lot. I connected a lot. While it was busy and sometimes stressful, it ultimately was a great opportunity.

So, I hope you enjoyed all the episodes, and that you learned a lot too, and that you're excited for the year ahead.

Like I say all the time, thank you so much for your support. I could not do this without you.

And to all my LGBTQuties out there, I hope you have a happy and healthy holiday season. Stay safe, and I will see you in 2025.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (46:46)

Rob Loveless

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Five stars only. I greatly appreciate it. For any questions or feedback about any episodes, feel free to reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

For more information on episode topics, links to resources, blog posts, merchandise, all that fun stuff, you can visit the website ajadedgay.com.

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Or if you just want to purchase those bonus episodes, you can do so for $3 each.

And if you're scared of commitment, don't worry. I get it. You can do a one-time donation on Buy Me a Coffee for any dollar amount. And both of those are @ajadedgaypod.

And remember: every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.